# Who's in the wrong? (Accident, left turn from right lane) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378 "2012-08-23T13:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/21 "2012-08-23T19:07:09Z")
I’m going to say “Second driver.” While the first driver is a ditz and a scoff-law, the second driver is a full-on moron **because they can see there’s a ditzy scoff-law about to do something ditzy and illegal** and yet choose not only to break the law but to pull a risky manuver **in the presence of an unpredicatable, idiot driver** ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/22 "2012-08-23T19:12:43Z")
Well, if I was the traffic cop both would get tickets. Unsafe Turn and Illegal Lane Change would be at the top of the list(s). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/23 "2012-08-23T19:53:49Z")
Both at fault. Professional opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/24 "2012-08-23T20:56:58Z")
I am happy to say that I’ve never seen anyone do anything quite this stupid. I say 50-50. I still don’t get why anyone would turn left from the right lane. I can see the impetus if the turn lane was backed up, but it couldn’t have been if the second car tried to us it to go straight. I have seen people who screwed up and are in the wrong lane trying to push into the correct lane rather than just obeying the law and making a u-turn. Could that be the case here? ---
**Author:** ![lycopersiyum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@lycopersiyum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lycopersiyum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/25 "2012-08-23T21:13:12Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > … is one lane each way with a central turning lane… How can a road be one lane each way with a central turning lane? I can’t figure out the situation. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/26 "2012-08-23T21:19:18Z")
> [@lycopersiyum](#): > > How can a road be one lane each way with a central turning lane? I can’t figure out the situation. What am I missing? The central turning lane is in addition to the one (regular) lane each way. If you still can’t picture it, check the link in Post #16. ---
**Author:** ![lycopersiyum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@lycopersiyum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lycopersiyum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/27 "2012-08-23T21:20:59Z")
Ok, I think I get it. From a personal (not legal) opinion, I think the person in the main street line is mostly if not completely at fault. That person could never safely make his manoeuvre if anybody were in the lane to the left of his, so it behooves him to wait until nobody is in that lane in order to move into it. ---
**Author:** ![lycopersiyum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@lycopersiyum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lycopersiyum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/28 "2012-08-23T21:22:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The central turning lane is in addition to the one (regular) lane each way. If you still can’t picture it, check the link in Post #16. Thanks. I was working it out when you posted, but your description is good. ---
**Author:** ![lycopersiyum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@lycopersiyum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lycopersiyum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/29 "2012-08-23T21:26:34Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > he knew the turning car intended to turn across his path when traffic was clear How did he know this? Furthermore, is it a job of a person in the left lane to know that people from the “straight only” lane are going to suddenly move into the left-turn lane? ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/30 "2012-08-23T21:47:30Z")
So we’ve declared this a hypothetical situation, I wasn’t there & I didn’t do it but some points to ponder: Because car 2 passed in the left turn lane, we’ve established there wasn’t any traffic there & car 1 wasn’t trying to ‘beat the lane of traffic’. However, maybe car 2 went around car 1 because he thought car 1 was [ul] really trying to turn right, just waiting for a pedestrian to clear the intersection. (I have accidentally put on the wrong turn signal before because my hand caught the lever on the way back.) drunk (& therefore stopping at green lights) a Mexican cabbie (& therefore stopping at green lights - it’s an old joke) [/ul] If I were in car 2 & car 1 wasn’t in turn lane at all, I wouldn’t think he was turning left. ---
**Author:** ![lycopersiyum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@lycopersiyum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lycopersiyum)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/31 "2012-08-23T22:20:54Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > So we’ve declared this a hypothetical situation, I wasn’t there & I didn’t do it but some points to ponder: > Because car 2 passed in the left turn lane, we’ve established there wasn’t any traffic there & car 1 wasn’t trying to ‘beat the lane of traffic’. However, maybe car 2 went around car 1 because he thought car 1 was > [ul] > really trying to turn right, just waiting for a pedestrian to clear the intersection. (I have accidentally put on the wrong turn signal before because my hand caught the lever on the way back.) > drunk (& therefore stopping at green lights) > a Mexican cabbie (& therefore stopping at green lights - it’s an old joke) > [/ul] > If I were in car 2 & car 1 wasn’t in turn lane at all, I wouldn’t think he was turning left. I can’t see how your post makes sense in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/32 "2012-08-24T00:11:51Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > There’s a car in the right “through” lane on Main St. attempting to turn left onto Cross St. (which is illegal, but I see this all the time). While the turning car is waiting for the traffic to clear on the opposing lane so they can make their turn, a driver behind the turning car gets impatient and decides to pass through the intersection by using the central turn lane (which is also illegal, for obvious reasons). > [@Spiderman](#): > > If I were in car 2 & car 1 wasn’t in turn lane at all, I wouldn’t think he was turning left. The OP didn’t explicitly state that car 1 was _signalling_ a left turn. Even if he was, car 2 wouldn’t have seen car 1 signalling if he wasn’t directly behind car 1—there might have been one or more cars between them. Without seeing a signal, why would car 2 have guessed that car 1 was going to turn left into its path? There could be other reasons why it was waiting: it could have been stalled with car trouble, or, as **Spiderman** notes, waiting to make a _right_ turn. If I were stuck behind a car that wasn’t moving when it “should” be, I would at least be _tempted_ to try going around them, which is what car 2 did. So I at least find car 2’s actions more understandable than car 1’s. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/33 "2012-08-24T00:28:33Z")
My first thought was to blame car 2, since it seems like he knew what was happening and essentially caused the accident. But how do we know car 2 ever saw car 1? For example, car 2 could have been intently focused on the oncoming traffic, looking for a gap to turn. Car 2 decides at precisely the wrong time that he’s not going to get a left turn opening any time soon, and decides to go straight through the intersection. Having not seen (via peripheral vision) or heard any cars whizzing by on his right for some time, car 2 takes a quick glance in the rear view and sees a clear through lane (let’s assume no one was behind car 1). Then, just as car 2 attempts to drive through the intersection, car 1 zooms across his path. :smack: Seems like a stretch, but honestly I’ve never seen someone come to a stop in a single through lane and try to turn alongside the legit turn lane. Feels like an accident waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/34 "2012-08-24T00:30:39Z")
Okay, allow me to restate the OP to hopefully clarify any confusion: There’s a four-way intersection controlled by a traffic light. The main road (“Main St.”) is three lanes across, one lane each way with a left turn lane in the center, and the crossing road (“Cross St.”) is one lane each way. Main St. has the green light, and left turns are allowed on green after yielding to oncoming traffic, but _only from the designated turn lane_. The left-most and right-most lanes are for traffic turning right onto Cross St. or continuing straight through the intersection. See example [here](https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=38.996099,-77.003624&spn=0.004703,0.009645&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.996099,-77.005679&panoid=Y4YCWBaREomIRz4JDGiUuw&cbp=12,211.56,,0,14.53&z=17). There is a line of vehicles in the right-most lane on Main St. and the left-turn lane is clear. The car in front in the right-most lane on Main St. (“Car A”) is attempting to make an illegal left turn onto Cross St. from the right-most lane. Car A has his left turn signal on, clearly indicating his intent to turn left (the intersection is at the bottom of a hill and slightly to the left, so everyone behind is able to see the turn signal). While Car A is waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear so they can make their turn, a driver waiting behind Car A (“Car B”) gets impatient and decides to illegally bypass Car A by using the left turn lane. The oncoming traffic clears and Car A starts their turn just as Car B is reaching the intersection and they collide. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/35 "2012-08-24T00:36:51Z")
My bad, I thought car 2 was waiting in the left lane (although if the left lane is wide open, it seems that much stranger that car 1 couldn’t simply scootch over into the left lane and wait for an opening to turn). In any case, it sounds like 50/50 fault. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/36 "2012-08-24T00:42:03Z")
The second car. Let’s say that the first (turning) car is from out of town and doesn’t see the street name till he’s upon it, and by that time he’s stuck in the wrong lane. So, he’s thinking, “I’ll just wait it out and turn when I get my chance: no big deal.” The second car is purposely and knowingly deciding to break the rules in order to save a minute or two of time. They are both wrong of course, but the second driver is knowingly breaking the law, whereas the first guy is just confused and trying to get back on track. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/37 "2012-08-24T01:41:37Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > There’s a four-way intersection controlled by a traffic light. The main road (let’s call it Main St.) is one lane each way with a central turning lane, the crossing road (let’s call it Cross St.) is one lane each way. Main St. has the green light, and left turns are allowed on green after yielding to opposing traffic. > > There’s a car in the right “through” lane on Main St. attempting to turn left onto Cross St. (which is illegal, but I see this all the time). While the turning car is waiting for the traffic to clear on the opposing lane so they can make their turn, a driver behind the turning car gets impatient and decides to pass through the intersection by using the central turn lane (which is also illegal, for obvious reasons). The opposing traffic clears and the turning car starts their turn just as the second car is reaching the intersection in the central turn lane and they collide. > > Who is _most_ at fault? Both are doing stupidly illegal things, both are at fault, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/38 "2012-08-24T02:10:59Z")
Both have broken the law, and in a common-law contributory negligence jurisdiction, neither would recover damages. However, Driver #2 has the greater proportion of fault. When he decided to pass Driver #1, Driver #1 was stopped – and Driver #2 does not know why. Sure, he may be reasonably certain of the reason, but pretend for a moment that Driver #1 just had a transmission failure – he’d be doing the same thing, and Driver #2 would be allowed to proceed – cautiously – through the center lane. Driver #2 did not proceed cautiously, and his belief that Driver #1 would be making a left turn at the earliest opportunity compounds this error. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/39 "2012-08-24T02:40:22Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Because they’re lost, or not paying attention, or just stupid. I see this happen every single day. I was sitting in the left turn lane while driving home yesterday and a car passed me on the left (meaning, over the center line into oncoming lanes) and then turned RIGHT at the traffic light across 3 lanes. Miraculously, there was no accident, though I have no idea how because it was rush hour and it was a major boulevard. Judging by the Crown Vic that came by a few seconds later, I think he was fleeing the cops, but I couldn’t be sure (unmarked, no sirens). Just when you think you’ve seen all the crazy driving there is, someone else comes along. Technically, I think both Driver 1 and Driver 2 are at fault, but IMO Driver 2 is the bigger moron. Stopping to turn from the travel lane instead of the turn lane is stupid and irritating because it blocks traffic, but not actively dangerous, unlike using a turn lane to illegally pass and whiz through an intersection while knowing that the guy is going to be turning in your direction and not being able to see what’s on the other side of his car. What if there was a jaywalker or something? I had someone try to pass me while I was stopped for a school bus with its lights on because it hadn’t seen the bus. Thankfully, the child getting off was not crossing the road. You just never know. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378/40 "2012-08-24T03:12:33Z")
Car 2 was impatient but from the description car 1 wasn’t even partially in the left turn lane. Why would car 2 expect car 1 to turn left? Given car 1 was in the wrong lane, he should have checked his rearview mirror before proceeding like when pulling out of a parallel parking space. My answer holds even if car 2 was making a left instead of going straight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-accident-left-turn-from-right-lane/632378.md?page=1)