# Who's in the wrong here? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753 "2013-04-15T07:15:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/101 "2013-04-21T05:34:39Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > In the history of our many years together, my husband and I have had occasion to be furious with each other. Absolutely furious. Sometimes justified, sometimes not. > > Never, ever, has either of us made physical contact with the other to express this fury. Ever. It would be absolutely inconceivable for either of us to do so. > > Children lash out because they haven’t learned or been taught to express their frustration verbally. As an adult, we’re expected (and expect each other) to ‘use our words’. > > Your husband was in the wrong to respond violently towards you in order to express his feelings of frustration. > > Also, this: > [http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/family-shares-incomplete-text-message-of-son-typed-seconds-before-he-died-in-car-crash-353664](http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/family-shares-incomplete-text-message-of-son-typed-seconds-before-he-died-in-car-crash-353664) yup. 11 years with my ex, a very nasty breakup, involving money and a house and cheating and lying and betrayal. One night she called the cops on me. Because I was crying and yelling and punched my hand through a kitchen cabinet door while she was in the back bedroom by herself. ANY physical contact or hitting is not normal, and not right. That was the most the angry I have ever been in my life, and I had been drinking. And not even for a moment did I consider touching her physically. That kitchen cabinet door, on the other hand…had it coming 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/102 "2013-04-21T13:20:15Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I didn’t think it was heart warming, and I still cringe when I think about it. But I’m about as laid back and unargumentative as they come and so is my wife, shit is still going to happen in any long term relationship or marriage. To think otherwise sets up unrealistic expectations, it would be like expecting to have passionate sex twice daily for your entire marriage. > > EDIT:If anyone is curious we got married VERY young, we were both in our early twenties. It’s what you chose to say to the young girl that’s awful. Insult your wife, and apologize- that’s between you two. But what you said to that child, and she ended up getting yelled at? I hope there’s a part to the story where the niece got an apology and had it explained to her that she was right- people should not talk to each other that way and that she didn’t deserve to be talked to with such vulgarity. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/103 "2013-04-21T13:25:42Z")
All of your husband’s actions were wrong. The hitting part specifically is extra wrong and could indicate serious unaddressed anger/violence issues. However, _you don’t physically interfere with the driver_. This includes snatching things from them. You made things worse by doing this. Again, husband’s actions were wrong. The hitting part specifically is extra wrong and could indicate serious unaddressed anger/violence issues. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/104 "2013-04-21T14:37:20Z")
The thing that bothers me isn’t the hitting. In that situation, he’d just been scared to death by you taking the phone away, and it is possible that other factors in his life led him to overreact. What bothers me is that apparently he never apologized or say that he didn’t mean to hit that hard. It sounds like he thinks it was okay. Yeah, such an apology would mean nothing after multiple instances of abuse, but if this is truly the first time, then an apology is what separates it from accident and abuse in my mind. It doesn’t mean you can’t recover, but it’s still abuse. I take it by everyone else’s responses here that there’s no cultural barrier since the OP is Scandinavia, and that all forms of hitting are generally considered wrong there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/105 "2013-04-21T15:16:24Z")
The only one with a lick of sense was the four year old. Hope you can work trough the fuckedupidness that is your marriage, or at least make some cash on whatever Springeresque show you have over there. Either way, do the other vehicles on the road a favour, and don’t duke it out on the highway. And do you son a favour by both you and your husband learning to deal with your issues, rather than take verbal or physical shots at each other. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/106 "2013-04-21T15:22:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The thing that bothers me isn’t the hitting. In that situation, he’d just been scared to death by you taking the phone away, and it is possible that other factors in his life led him to overreact. Do you read threads before you leap in to give your opinion? The OP said the reason he got mad was because he didn’t like how she was asking him. If only she had asked the right way (expressed that she was “scared” not that she was “mad or demanding”) he wouldn’t have gotten angry. That is a huge red flag and had nothing to do with him just being frightened and reacting badly. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16207059&postcount=67](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16207059&postcount=67) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/107 "2013-04-21T15:50:10Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > And we do have the referral note to a marraige counselor taped to the fridge; husband just is reluctant to go and I’m currently not motivated enough to arrange a babysitter, take the time off, and drag him to a session. If he doesn’t want to go to see the counselor with you then you can, and should, go without him. Stop making excuses. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/108 "2013-04-21T16:34:02Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s what you chose to say to the young girl that’s awful. Insult your wife, and apologize- that’s between you two. But what you said to that child, and she ended up getting yelled at? > > I hope there’s a part to the story where the niece got an apology and had it explained to her that she was right- people should not talk to each other that way and that she didn’t deserve to be talked to with such vulgarity. - eleventy billion ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/109 "2013-04-21T16:56:59Z")
Here’s my question, after all the clarifications: what does he say about the incident? After one particular breakup-level fight with my then-husband, what I wanted was a guarantee: This behavior (verbally abusive, physically threatening) would NEVER happen again. Never, ever, ever. I wanted a written in stone, gold-clad, signed in blood, money back guarantee. His response was to say nope, he couldn’t guarantee me that, but after all he only behaves this way a couple of times a year, so I should just learn to “cope” better. I’m not willing to live with someone who is abusive once in a while. After a couple years of counseling, it became apparent that things were not changing. He felt **entitled** to act that way every so often. So…what’s your husband’s take? So far, it seems like he’s blaming you for the fact that he hit you. Can he promise you that he won’t do it again? Or will he only make that promise as long as you behave properly? Because there is a world of difference if you are planning to stay. I think, too, there is that behavioral line that we all have. Some parents tell their kids to shut up and think it’s fine. I’ve never in 26 years told one of my kids to shut up; it crosses a behavioral boundary for me. Similarly, I’ve never struck my partner, nor would I call him a “fucking idiot” or anything like that. Did your husband cross his own behavioral boundary, or is hitting you okay with him? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/110 "2013-04-21T20:46:14Z")
Your perception that once in a while it’s okay to call your spouse a ‘fucking idiot’, that it’s unreasonable to expect such would never happen, in a marriage sounds like veiled rationalization for juvenile behaviour, to be frank. You may find, that for most other people, such is neither to be expected nor tolerated from someone claiming to love and respect them… Defending your twisted stance while revealing how vile you’re capable of being to a child was a mistake in judgement I think. It might be wise to step back and reconsider (please), before posting again. Just an unsolicited opinion! ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/111 "2013-04-21T22:11:43Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Husband and I are in the car, him in the drivers seat, driving on the highway. It is two hours before rush hour and there is not much traffic. > > We need some info from his smartphone, it might have been the GPS that didn’t work right, or some contact info that didn’t come up as instructed. Anyway, I try to find it, I don’t succeed. > > Husband grabs the smartphone and says, lemmehandlethat. > He tries to work the smartphone, one eye on the road, but more then 50 % of his attention on the device. > > I freak out and tell him to mind the road, this is dangerous. Husband says no, I got this, I’m nearly done. Then continues to tinker some more. I really freak out and say, stop, we’ll park somewhere and then you can work that damned thing. Husband doesn’t listen. > > I grab the phone from his hands and hold on to it. He hits my leg in angry frustration, not hard enough to leave a bruise, but hard enough to bring tears to my eyes. > > Then I give him the silent treatment for the next 5 miles. > > Okay, what did we both do wrong? > > Inspired by [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=688150), that kinda shocked me in the harshness of the responses. That thread made me think, well, if that is called domestic abuse, most couples I know abuse each other on a monthly basis. If such instances would merit police intervention and a divorce, there wouldn’t be many marriages left. I think your husband is an asshole. I would not spend a minute with a man who hit me for any reason or in any situation. The one thing you did wrong was not walk out on him that very day. You really think most people behave this way, with the man hitting the woman? Wow. You’ve got issues. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/112 "2013-04-21T22:39:54Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > The one thing you did wrong was not walk out on him that very day. > > You really think most people behave this way, with the man hitting the woman? Wow. You’ve got issues. I respectfully disagree. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal until it starts happening on a regular basis. I think people are jumping the divorce gun a little early here. I am not saying it’s acceptable to do this, but I don’t think the OP should be considering a divorce just based on this one occurrence. It’s illegal? Well, so is illegally downloading music and driving above the speed limit. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/113 "2013-04-21T22:47:56Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I respectfully disagree. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal until it starts happening on a regular basis. I think people are jumping the divorce gun a little early here. I am not saying it’s acceptable to do this, but I don’t think the OP should be considering a divorce just based on this one occurrence. I wouldn’t be considering divorce based on being hit once, either. But this might have done it > [@](#): > > He was acting somewhat contrite afterwards. Along the lines of; “well, I shouldn’t have hit you, but you shouldn’t have grabbed the phone.” Sounds an awful lot like “it’s your fault I hit you” and if you don’t think so, substitute “burned the dinner” or " forgotten to iron my shirts " for “grabbed the phone”. It’s not real contrition- it’s refusing to take responsibility for his own actions and blaming me for them instead. Which is going to be problem even if he never hits me again. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/114 "2013-04-21T23:06:24Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I respectfully disagree. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal until it starts happening on a regular basis. It doesn’t happen in a vacuum. There aren’t relationships that are generally good and respectful except for the occasional act of violence. It says something about the person’s general mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/115 "2013-04-22T00:54:45Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > It’s illegal? Well, so is illegally downloading music Equating assault with downloading music is, well it isn’t to be said in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/116 "2013-04-22T01:07:09Z")
As I said in my earlier post, I am not supporting assault and I will clarify that I am not trying to equate it with illegally downloading music. My point was that one hit shouldn’t be enough to start triggering divorce thoughts, at least in my opinion. Then, for those who are concerned about the legal aspect of it, my point was that one hit doesn’t seem that bad - just one slap, and there are many things that are illegal that people do anyway so one hit shouldn’t start triggering legal action or divorce considerations. Of course, this is only my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/117 "2013-04-22T01:19:34Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > My point was that one hit shouldn’t be enough to start triggering divorce thoughts, at least in my opinion. And the actual point is that it’s never just one hit. Hits come in context. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/118 "2013-04-22T04:33:30Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Your perception that once in a while it’s okay to call your spouse a ‘fucking idiot’, that it’s unreasonable to expect such would never happen, in a marriage sounds like veiled rationalization for juvenile behaviour, to be frank. > > You may find, that for most other people, such is neither to be expected nor tolerated from someone claiming to love and respect them.. > > Defending your twisted stance while revealing how vile you’re capable of being to a child was a mistake in judgement I think. It might be wise to step back and reconsider (please), before posting again. Just an unsolicited opinion! Because of course I am proud of an incident that makes me cringe? If anything of my posting here should have showed you I’m not here to impress people or make friends. I’m not trying to rationalize anything to make MYSELF feel better. If you think I wasn’t ashamed of my actions, and what I said to my niece well whatever. Again I am simply trying to say to Mass that plenty of flawed marriages can be turned around and make rewarding, as opposed to another twenty posters using this thread to brag about their perfect marriage. I’ve had a woman tell me(in the USA) that her husband had held her at shotgun point and threatened to kill her, and I said get the hell out if you value your own or your daughter’s life. That is a far point from what Mass posted about. A flawed marriage can be turned around, and made rewarding. But I’ll leave the lot of you to post about your absolutely pitch perfect marriages, which will surely help a woman in a flawed one. Done. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/119 "2013-04-22T04:46:34Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I actually remember the “fucking idiot” incident and I’ll even type it out here, it was in early 2009 and my wife had recently lost her mother after a long terminal illness and was taking it out on me and I was not giving her enough room to grieve. Grude, I’m sorry you’re done, because I just came in to say that this is the kind of incident where I’d totally treat it as a one-off thing because that has got to be an extremely stressful situation where no one is acting the way he or she would normally. My husband and I have not had this kind of long-term emotionally draining stress in our marriage (at least not yet, knock on wood). If we did, if the worst thing that happened was that we called each other fucking idiots once, I’d consider we got off lucky. (This is very different from the OP, where it’s considered to be an everyday occurence.) ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/120 "2013-04-22T08:12:59Z")
I have been thinking a lot about this thread, and reading in Blackberry’s book. I don’t think I am in an abusive relationship. I am, however, in a relationship where my husband and I no longer treat(ed) each other with enough respect. The kicker came when I realized that I am more respectful to co-workers _I don’t even like_, then I am to my husband. If I need anything from a co-worker, I am polite, I ask in a circumspect way, I explain why I need it, I am open to their suggestions as to how to do the job, I show appreciatation beforehand and afterwards, and I express implicit faith that they will do what they promise. And I don’t assume they will mess the job up beforehand. And even if they do mess the job up, I politely give them another chance to do it, I provide respectful and very circumspect help, and I try and make sure to save everybody’s dignity as much as possible. While at home, my bitter disappointment and resentment leads me to bitching out orders at my husband, while exasperatedly rolling my eyes at his attempts to make suggestions. And even while I tell him what to do, I already assume he’s going to flake out, hence my anger. It is no wonder he often flakes out, because he has a petulant and proud streak and really doesn’t like to be ordered what to do. Our dynamic didn’t work in any way whatsoever. And for the time being, divorce is just not a practical option either. Something had to change. So for the last week, I’ve told my husband that I’ll be trying the “respect” thing. I’ve brought my office manners home. So far it’s working. He occasionally will make a teasing remark that borders on disrespect, and then I jokingly hum the Aretha Frankllin line back to him (R-E-S-P-E-C-T, find out what it means to me…) Or I do my Mafia or gang imitation of ""gimmie respect, yo!. And whenever I say something thorny, I apologize. I hope it catches on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753.md?page=7)