# Who's in the wrong here? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753 "2013-04-15T07:15:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/121 "2013-04-22T08:27:23Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > He explained he saw my demand to stop tinkering NOW as a demand and a sign of mistrust in his ability to multitask. Do whatever you want with your husband, but _I_ at least have a complete mistrust in his ability to multitask, and don’t want to be on the road he’s driving on. He endangered yourself, your kid and everybody else because obviously he’s better at multitasking than all those other bad drivers, and causing an accident couldn’t possibly happen to _him_, of course. :rolleyes: And it went downhill from there. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/122 "2013-04-22T08:43:01Z")
**clairobscur** , I actually agree with you about the tinkering. He really shouldn’t have done that. even though I understand my own part in how it came about. FWIW, I don’t think he will do it again, which is his implicit (but still the most effective) way of apologizing. Well, if this thread scared anyone else into: “Mmkay, tinkering with smartphones while driving is bad, mm’kay, even if I AM an excellent driver and a super good at multitasking” - it will be worth it. 🙂 One more thought: I have had relationships that were very, very harmonic. Me and me BFF haven’t had even _one_ angry fall-out in thirty years. Me and my ex have never called each other a bad name in 17 years. I don’t yet know what that means, though, I have to do some more thinking about that. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/123 "2013-04-22T09:44:14Z")
I’ll just throw in a general comment about the hitting. I do not in any way shape or form condone a man hitting a woman. I never have and never will. I watch my son with his GF. (he’s 23, she’s 19). They’ll argue and tease good naturedly and then she’ll belt him in the arm or leg. This will go on for a while till he eventually gives one back, usually a backhander to the arm or thigh, not hard and never an actual punch. Then she cries. WTF? Now, when I see this routine starting I tell them both to stop acting like 3 year olds, but it’s mainly aimed at her. As far as the OP goes, looks like a sequence of stuff ups, both at fault, but he needs a kick up the arse for trying to drive and use the phone/sat nav. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/124 "2013-04-22T10:37:11Z")
**Maastricht** , you need to ask, who is in the wrong, what did both of you do wrong? Your husband should never hit you. No spouse should ever hit. I am male, and a man should never hit a woman. Hitting in response to anger/frustration is a slippery slope. Once started, it’s likely to continue. After the first time, discuss to agree that it will never happen again. After the second time, it’s time to solidify an exit strategy. A third strike (pardon the pun), and put that plan into action. Don’t justify staying. ETA: easier said than done, I realize, especially with kids. Think about the lesson you want to impart to your kids. Do you want the kids becoming adults who justify their staying in their own abusive relationship? BREAK THE CHAIN OF VIOLENCE. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/125 "2013-04-22T10:59:38Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > I watch my son with his GF. (he’s 23, she’s 19). They’ll argue and tease good naturedly and then she’ll belt him in the arm or leg. This will go on for a while till he eventually gives one back, usually a backhander to the arm or thigh, not hard and never an actual punch. Then she cries. WTF? Seems like it is the boyfriend in this case that is in an abusive relationship, at least to me. I mean since she is a female she gets to hit him all she wants without getting hit back, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/126 "2013-04-22T10:59:47Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Well, there’s the matter of us having a young kid, and a house together we can’t sell for shit. > > And the fact that mostly, we get along as reasonably well as can be expected from two tired and stressed out working parents with each their own baggage. > > And the fact that usually, I give as good as I get when it comes to other forms of abuse. You haven’t been on the receiving end of true resentful sarcasm untill I’ve ranted to you and about you, trust me. > > Yes, it would be nice if we equally did our best to respect each other and take care of each other. We don’t. But whatever the B-minus version of that ideal marriage is, we have it and there _is_ a balance. He was in the wrong for using the device while driving. When you are both calm, you need to discuss it and make clear that it is unacceptable. Leaving him because he tapped you would be stupid. It needs to be more severe than that. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/127 "2013-04-22T11:02:05Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > **Maastricht** , you need to ask, who is in the wrong, what did both of you do wrong? Your husband should never hit you. No spouse should ever hit. I am male, and a man should never hit a woman. > > Hitting in response to anger/frustration is a slippery slope. Once started, it’s likely to continue. After the first time, discuss to agree that it will never happen again. After the second time, it’s time to solidify an exit strategy. A third strike (pardon the pun), and put that plan into action. Don’t justify staying. > > ETA: easier said than done, I realize, especially with kids. Think about the lesson you want to impart to your kids. Do you want the kids becoming adults who justify their staying in their own abusive relationship? BREAK THE CHAIN OF VIOLENCE. “a man should never hit a woman” So you are in the army in combat, and a woman soldier in the opposing army attacks you- what do you do? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/128 "2013-04-22T11:14:08Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > “a man should never hit a woman” > So you are in the army in combat, and a woman soldier in the opposing army attacks you- what do you do? First, it’s Marine Corps, not Army. 🆒 To answer the question, I’m not angry/frustrated then. I do my job. I waste her and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/129 "2013-04-22T11:47:48Z")
Man, I’m doing relationships wrong. I’m fascinated by this world in which couples NEVER tell each other to “Fuck Off!” in the midst of a heated argument. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/130 "2013-04-22T11:51:55Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Man, I’m doing relationships wrong. > > I’m fascinated by this world in which couples NEVER tell each other to “Fuck Off!” in the midst of a heated argument. Telling a spouse No is one thing, violence another altogether. That said, how the verbal message is given may also be abusive. Were you being serious about the “F off”? I would only say that in jest. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/131 "2013-04-22T11:55:00Z")
I think you’ve made a really important realisation about your own behaviour, **Maastricht** , and you’re taking steps to change. Good for you and I hope it has a successful outcome. I have seen many friends/family members in a similar situation where they’ve just forgotten to respect each other. There was a post on this board a while ago that gave me the good reminder. It was something about ‘Your job as a spouse is to be an easy person to love. You’re not supposed to make it difficult.’ That really sunk in and I reflect on it quite often. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/132 "2013-04-22T13:13:02Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Man, I’m doing relationships wrong. > > I’m fascinated by this world in which couples NEVER tell each other to “Fuck Off!” in the midst of a heated argument. > [@echo7tango](#): > > Telling a spouse No is one thing, violence another altogether. > > That said, how the verbal message is given may also be abusive. Were you being serious about the “F off”? I would only say that in jest. I’ve never said it even in jest. No man I’ve ever been with has said it to me (and I’ve been married twice and in several LTRs.) In fact… now that I think about it, no one has ever told me to fuck off and I’ve only “said” it once _to someone_, on a private message board, when the OP was really being obnoxious. Even in the midst of the most heated argument, I keep one eye/ear on my language, and I’m acutely aware that once you say those words, they are Out There and you can never take them back. I’m appalled that some think this kind of language/attitude is normal and routine in an intimate relationship. But I know there are couples that do. Also, my parents NEVER EVER told me to shut up or called me names. I guess people learn what’s acceptable by the way their parents talk to them. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/133 "2013-04-22T13:20:51Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > And the actual point is that it’s never just one hit. Hits come in context. And this is why I don’t believe this is the first time there was violence. The OP seems to have a rather blase attitude about being punched, and I can’t see how this is possible if this was a novel experience. So I’m inclined to think she is fudging the facts to the get the response she’s looking for. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/134 "2013-04-22T18:09:44Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I have been thinking a lot about this thread, and reading in Blackberry’s book. I don’t think I am in an abusive relationship. I am, however, in a relationship where my husband and I no longer treat(ed) each other with enough respect. > > The kicker came when I realized that I am more respectful to co-workers _I don’t even like_, then I am to my husband. > If I need anything from a co-worker, I am polite, I ask in a circumspect way, I explain why I need it, I am open to their suggestions as to how to do the job, I show appreciatation beforehand and afterwards, and I express implicit faith that they will do what they promise. And I don’t assume they will mess the job up beforehand. And even if they do mess the job up, I politely give them another chance to do it, I provide respectful and very circumspect help, and I try and make sure to save everybody’s dignity as much as possible. > > While at home, my bitter disappointment and resentment leads me to bitching out orders at my husband, while exasperatedly rolling my eyes at his attempts to make suggestions. And even while I tell him what to do, I already assume he’s going to flake out, hence my anger. > > It is no wonder he often flakes out, because he has a petulant and proud streak and really doesn’t like to be ordered what to do. > > Our dynamic didn’t work in any way whatsoever. And for the time being, divorce is just not a practical option either. Something had to change. > > So for the last week, I’ve told my husband that I’ll be trying the “respect” thing. I’ve brought my office manners home. So far it’s working. He occasionally will make a teasing remark that borders on disrespect, and then I jokingly hum the Aretha Frankllin line back to him (R-E-S-P-E-C-T, find out what it means to me..) Or I do my Mafia or gang imitation of ""gimmie respect, yo!. And whenever I say something thorny, I apologize. > > I hope it catches on. This entire post warmed the cockles of my heart. 🙂 I think your own personal revelations are very important, and I’m honestly glad that you and your husband are both working to make positive changes to the dynamic of your relationship. I genuinely wish you both the very best of luck with this. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/135 "2013-04-23T15:20:34Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Because of course I am proud of an incident that makes me cringe? If anything of my posting here should have showed you I’m not here to impress people or make friends. I’m not trying to rationalize anything to make MYSELF feel better. > If you think I wasn’t ashamed of my actions, and what I said to my niece well whatever. > > Again I am simply trying to say to Mass that plenty of flawed marriages can be turned around and make rewarding, as opposed to another twenty posters using this thread to brag about their perfect marriage. > > I’ve had a woman tell me(in the USA) that her husband had held her at shotgun point and threatened to kill her, and I said get the hell out if you value your own or your daughter’s life. That is a far point from what Mass posted about. A flawed marriage can be turned around, and made rewarding. > > But I’ll leave the lot of you to post about your absolutely pitch perfect marriages, which will surely help a woman in a flawed one. > > Done. Your talking in extremes. Your stance seems to be that all marriage have one partner or the other slugging the other partner now and then. You seem to think that is normal. And you act like people who say it isn’t normal are being pretentious and acting like they’ve got perfect marriages. That’s not what I’m saying at all. No marriage is perfect, but physical assault of any kind is not normal. It isn’t. And you shouldn’t think so. I’ve been in two relationships that were long term. One had domestic violence, the other didn’t. The one that didn’t have domestic violence wasn’t perfect, but it was with a man who would never consider raising a hand to me, never. That is normal. That is a decent, normal relationship. A relationship where your partner might hit you if he gets frustrated or angry or drunk or something, that is not normal. That is not a good man treating his partner with love and respect. I know, I’ve been in both types of relationship. Most people do not have partners who hit them. **Hitting other people is not normal.** ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/136 "2013-04-23T17:12:33Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > Your stance seems to be that all marriage have one partner or the other slugging the other partner now and then. You seem to think that is normal. And you act like people who say it isn’t normal are being pretentious and acting like they’ve got perfect marriages. That’s not what I’m saying at all. No marriage is perfect, but physical assault of any kind is not normal. It isn’t. And you shouldn’t think so. I’ve been in two relationships that were long term. One had domestic violence, the other didn’t. The one that didn’t have domestic violence wasn’t perfect, but it was with a man who would never consider raising a hand to me, never. That is normal. That is a decent, normal relationship. A relationship where your partner might hit you if he gets frustrated or angry or drunk or something, that is not normal. I see what you mean, but I als understand where **grude** and myself come from (and I thank **grude** for sharing another real-life and non-bragworthy occurence). Hitting people is not normal in our culture, okay, but neither does it HAVE to be abuse. It does signify that the relationship could be better, yes. But hitting _can_ happen, incidentally, in an otherwise equal power relationship. As can the incidental bout of real nasty verbal abuse. And yes, I know that that exact same line can and often _is_ used as a rationalization in abusive relationships. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/137 "2013-04-26T11:01:35Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I see what you mean, but I als understand where **grude** and myself come from (and I thank **grude** for sharing another real-life and non-bragworthy occurence). Hitting people is not normal in our culture, okay, but neither does it HAVE to be abuse. It does signify that the relationship could be better, yes. But hitting _can_ happen, incidentally, in an otherwise equal power relationship. As can the incidental bout of real nasty verbal abuse. And yes, I know that that exact same line can and often _is_ used as a rationalization in abusive relationships. The thng is it isn’t an “equal partner relationship” if one person is hitting the other. It’s usually more likely it is the man hitting, and men are usually bigger and stronger than the women, so it is not equal at all. In the relationship I was in where there was violence, I was intimated and afraid by the violence, so in order to avoid it, I backed off when I thought I might provoke something. I ‘behaved’ myself so as not to get hit. That’s not equal partnership; it is oppression and one person living in fear and being intimidated by the other. That, in fact, was what made me realize I had to leave the relationship: I was not going to live the rest of my life being afraid I’d say or do the wrong thing and end up getting slugged. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/138 "2013-04-26T13:10:23Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I see what you mean, but I als understand where **grude** and myself come from (and I thank **grude** for sharing another real-life and non-bragworthy occurence). Hitting people is not normal in our culture, okay, but neither does it HAVE to be abuse. It does signify that the relationship could be better, yes. But hitting _can_ happen, incidentally, in an otherwise equal power relationship. As can the incidental bout of real nasty verbal abuse. And yes, I know that that exact same line can and often _is_ used as a rationalization in abusive relationships. I just want to know what _your husband_ is doing to fix your relationship. Since you’re working on it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/139 "2013-04-26T15:16:49Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I just want to know what _your husband_ is doing to fix your relationship. Since you’re working on it. I second this. I agree with purplehorseshoe and sandra\_nz, I’m glad you’ve come to a realization about your relationship, and I hope things go well. But I hope your husband is working on things as well. I’m afraid if he’s not also working on improving things, then there’s only so much better that things can get. Not that you are doomed to having a terrible, abusive marriage, but that it would continue to stay unhappy and unfulfilling. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753/140 "2013-04-26T15:28:31Z")
Actually, things have been going really well for the past two weeks. My husband has promised to do his share in the “new respect” apprach, and so far he holds up his end. Since I’ve stopped being _pre-emptively_ angry/resentful “Can I trust you to pick up X _this_ time ? Or should I rather do it myself?” he has largely stopped being flakey about his chores. I have also started to ask his imput in everyday decisions. Before I just worked out everything in my head, and the told him what to do. He would question my orders and I would be annoyed at being second guessed by someone who didn’t have the whole picture. But since I now ask his imput in the decision, he often actually has good insights and he is more likely to follow through. As I said, I brought my office manners home. It is managers 101 to involve workers in plans they have to execute, and to listen to their imput. I just did not do this at home because…too tired, too angry, too stressed out. I really hope we can continue this way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-here/655753.md?page=8)