# Who's in the wrong in this situation? (Invitation related) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700 "2009-09-11T16:11:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/21 "2009-09-11T17:40:32Z")
Did you want to go? Should have asked. Did you not want to go? Own it. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/22 "2009-09-11T20:29:42Z")
I love hanging out with my family and even their inlaws, so if it had been me, I would have asked Norma “So, is this thing that Diana is hosting a Rhymer family event?”, (but given “Oh, I’m going over to Diana’s this year”, that would have felt awkward, as that implies that you were not invited.) If Norma actually said that, without following up with something along the lines of “of course, you’re invited too”, then I can’t fault you. Given the circumstances of this situation, I would have accepted an invitation from Norma. However, you make it sound like you didn’t even get a hint of one. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/23 "2009-09-11T20:39:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > One of my sisters, “Norma,” and I are having a minor argument, ostensibly about etiquette but probably more about family and pride. For those who prefer to skip the long explanation, here are the basic questions: > [ul] > [li]_Do you feel free to invite your relatives to a “family” occasion you are not hosting?_[/li][li]_Would you feel free to accept such an invitation?_ and[/li][li]_Do you ask permission to attend events to which you are not invited, if said non-invite might reasonably be just an oversight?_[/li][/ul] > > Here’s the details if anybody’s curious. > > Each Labor Day, our oldest sister, “Jean,” throws a big picnic for her family and friends. One of the perennial invitees to this picnic is Jean’s best friend of many years, “Diana.” Having known one another since college, Jean and Diana consider one another sisters; they’re godmothers to one another children, they were each other’s maid of honor, and so forth. Norma is also very close to Diana. But I am not. I don’t dislike her; I just don’t know her well. She’s almost ten years older than me; when she and my sister met, Jean was in living in the dorms (i.e., was not living in the same house as me) and I have never spent much time with her. Diana and I work for the same large company, but in different divisions and locations; I never have occasion to interact with her professionally, though I do wave at her in the halls and occasionally exchange emails with her on superficial issues. > > Anyway…this year, Diana decided that she wanted to host her own Labor Day picnic, so Jean cancelled hers. I learned this when I called Jean to ask if she wanted me to bring anything over; her response was “Oh, I’m going over to Diana’s this year.” My other sisters, our father, and my sisters’ kids all went to Diana’s house for said picnic. But I did not, because I had not been invited. I saw Diana a couple of times in the week before Labor Day and she did not mention the picnic; nor did I ask about it. Instead I went to a picnic another friend of mine was throwing. > > This upset Norma. She felt this was a family occasion which I should have gone to, and that my refusal to do so is part of a pattern of avoiding family get-togethers. Diana did not invite me individually, Norma says, because she thought the invitation was implied; I always go to Jean’s picnic, after all. > > My position is that I did not simply because I was not asked, and neither Norma nor Jean is privileged to invite me to someonee else’s home; also, I certainly wasn’t going to ask to be invited, as that seems rude. Diana could easily have asked me so if she had wanted me there. Admittedly she probably would not have objected if I had come along with my sisters–but I don’t think it would have been appropriate for me to crash the party like that. > > Thoughts, anyone? Bueller? Sir, if events were as reported, you did the right thing. On another note, could I persuade you to retire the “Bueller?” thing? Mille grazie Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/24 "2009-09-11T20:42:42Z")
Let me tell you this so you know how much salt to apply to my post above: I live in the same town as my brother. His in-laws live in the next town over, and have a small house on the lake that they’ve gotten together at with friends and family for years. When I moved here 6 years ago I was specifically invited to join them a few times, and I went when I could. Now I rarely can, so they don’t call me to invite me. Once, upon finding out that they were going to the lakehouse, I called my SIL to ask if I could go too. She said “sure”. About 5 minutes later my brother called to uninvite me, explaining that it was a [SIL’s maiden name]-family event. (Sometimes it’s just immediate family. Sometimes it’s whoever wants to swing by.) I understood. I don’t want to be a 5th wheel. Now, I call my brother to ask, because he has no qualms about saying no; whereas my SIL is too polite. In fact, I hung out with them all there on Labor Day. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/25 "2009-09-11T20:58:15Z")
There are certain events (and certain people) that require personal invitations and those that don’t. This one doesn’t seem clearly one or the other. You sound completely in the right (doesn’t it feel good to read that?). It seems there was ample time for any of the women involved to invite you, even indirectly. When you asked what you should bring, your sister could have said, ‘We’re all going to Diana’s. Let me ask her what she might need.’ Or ‘We’re going to Diana’s. Do you need directions?’ ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/26 "2009-09-11T21:02:32Z")
1. No 2. No 3. Generally not. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/27 "2009-09-11T21:06:58Z")
No No Almost always No. So much “no,” in fact, that I find the rude people in the story to be the ones who are trying to make _you_ feel bad and/or rude for not party-crashing. ---
**Author:** ![Redwing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dfb087/32.png) [@Redwing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redwing)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/28 "2009-09-11T21:44:37Z")
Sometimes. My family is very scattered, and planning large events is usually pretty decentralized. Me being with pretty much anyone I’d call family involves serious travel on someone’s part, and usually multiple days and multiple groups to be seen. If I happen to talk to someone who hasn’t been notified yet I’d probably invite them, but this would be nothing like your issue. I’d also talk to other people about it before hand. Part of my family can get fuedy, so someone might not be invited because if they show up, someone else will leave. Sometimes. Due to the aforementioned distance, certain relatives have been known to invite me to events that really don’t make sense for me to go to, other than I was in the area and they wanted to see me. Other events make sense for me to go to, but the person planning wouldn’t have known I was going to be any where near, so the second hand invite makes sense. If I do accept, I would check with the person actually hosting just to sure. Too many elderly cousins want to see me when I’m around, and feel that they can invite anyone to their grandchildren’s events, for me to not ask directly. Yes. If I know of a family event that I’m actually going to be around for, or can get the time to travel to, I will let people know. But, again, it has to do with the distances and time involved. For your situation, you were perfectly correct, though it wouldn’t have been that rude of you to ask about the party in a general way if you wanted to go. A specific, hey can I come type question would be over the top, I think. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/29 "2009-09-11T22:34:57Z")
1. It depends. If it’s one of those things where there are no official invitations and it’s supposed to be a word of mouth thing (e.g. my cousin tells my sister in law to tell our family about a get together), then yes. But most of the time, no. 2. Depends. See above. 3. Probably. Given that my family has a very frustrating lack of any official communication about anything, I’d probably ask the person who told me about the get together to double check and make sure I’m invited. It could be unique to my family, but they’re very bad about any kind of official communications. Most get togethers involve one person telling a bunch of other people the details. It’s annoying, but I’ve given up trying to change it. Now I just go with the flow. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/30 "2009-09-11T22:39:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > My position is that I did not simply because I was not asked, and neither Norma nor Jean is privileged to invite me to someonee else’s home; also, I certainly wasn’t going to ask to be invited, as that seems rude. Diana could easily have asked me so if she had wanted me there. Admittedly she probably would not have objected if I had come along with my sisters–but I don’t think it would have been appropriate for me to crash the party like that. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/31 "2009-09-12T01:04:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > My position is that I did not simply because I was not asked, **and neither Norma nor Jean is privileged to invite me to someonee else’s home..**.. [emphasis added] The above seems to imply that either Norm or Jean invited you. Can you clarify? ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/32 "2009-09-12T02:10:52Z")
Specifically, in this situation: Yes Yes Yes, but I probably would have asked Jean to check with Diana, if I felt like I might be crashing. If the family normally has a family picnic on Labor Day, I wouldn’t just accept a change of plan that excluded me without questioning it. Unless I didn’t want to go, of course. I can see why you didn’t want to go to Diana’s without an invitation, but I don’t see why you were so willing to let your family exclude you, if you did actually want to hang out with them, and normally would. So I can see why your sisters are upset. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/33 "2009-09-12T03:50:22Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Do you really have sisters named Norma and Jean? It seems to me like his sisters and their friends live their lives like candles in the wind. To the question: 1. No 2. Maybe with a lot of caveats as to which family member, which friend, and what’s the occasion…but this is due to knowing my family. 3. Assuming 2 is a no, then no. Assuming 2 is a maybe, I know my family so someone ought to check- and they’re not going to… “permission” is the wrong word “clarification” is closer. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/34 "2009-09-12T04:09:13Z")
_Do you feel free to invite your relatives to a “family” occasion you are not hosting?_ No…its been done to me, and I don’t appreciate it when I end up playing gracious hostess to someone I’d rather not have in my house. Moreover, I really have no idea what sort of activities are planned. A ninth person when you are going to break out bridge tables is not welcome. _Would you feel free to accept such an invitation?_ No, having been on the “gracious hostess” end, I don’t assume everyone thinks me as wonderful as the inviting relative does. _Do you ask permission to attend events to which you are not invited, if said non-invite might reasonably be just an oversight?_ Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/35 "2009-09-12T04:31:30Z")
If it’s a family occasion, my relatives are all already invited, what with them all being relatives of the host and all. Things that are not hosted by a relative are by default not family occasions. I would only accept a second-hand invitation if it were presented as a direct wish of the host–“Jenn wanted me to tell you she’s having a cookout Tuesday night at 6.” And fuck no I wouldn’t put anybody on the spot for an invitation to _anything_, as I wasn’t raised in a barn. Frankly, the mind boggles at Diane’s rationale–you always go to _your sister’s_ cookout, and she’s your sister’s friend, so you should automatically know you’re invited to _her_ cookout? What the hell is this woman smoking? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/36 "2009-09-12T04:36:31Z")
I think you did the right thing, **Skald.** For all you knew beforehand, it was just a party for Diana’s family, with a sister or two of yours invited (not your whole family). I’m not in the habit of showing up at very casual acquaintances’ houses uninvited, regardless of how long my sisters have known them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/37 "2009-09-12T17:25:16Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > [emphasis added] > The above seems to imply that either Norm or Jean invited you. Can you clarify? No, but I can **elucidate**. 🆒 I phrased it badly, I think. I didn’t take Jean’s remark (“I’m going over to Diana’s this year”) as an invitation. I don’t know if she meant it as one, but then she’s not the person complaining. Norma seems to think I should have at least asked. But as others have noted, asking for an invitation to an event is kind of pusy, and I don’t like doing it. [QUOTE=CrazyCatLady] Frankly, the mind boggles at Diane’s rationale–you always go to your sister’s cookout, and she’s your sister’s friend, so you should automatically know you’re invited to her cookout? What the hell is this woman smoking? [/QUOTE] I don’t think I’ve said that Diana is complaining about my not showing up, and if I have I misspoke (well, mistyped). She hasn’t. It’s my sister Norma who’s criticized. Of course, as I think on it, she is probably sublimating irritation with me because she knows I am probably going to decline an invitation to an annual dinner she throws three weeks before Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700/38 "2009-09-12T17:39:47Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I phrased it badly, I think. I didn’t take Jean’s remark (“I’m going over to Diana’s this year”) as an invitation. I don’t know if she meant it as one, but then she’s not the person complaining. Norma seems to think I should have at least asked. But as others have noted, asking for an invitation to an event is kind of pusy, and I don’t like doing it. Seems to me she could have said, “No, we’re all going over to Diana’s this year” or “Diana invited us all over this year” if that were her intent. “Do you need directions?” or “What are you bringing?” or something along the lines of implying it might have done the trick, opened the topic for further discussion. And if as you pointed out you crossed paths with the hostess multiple times before the event and she didn’t raise the issue, you might reasonably conclude that you are not invited. I think it’s wrong to invite yourself over or even say anything. If you say, “Hey, am I invited?” what is the other person supposed to say? Can she say, “No, I want to see your sisters but not you!”? And if she does invite you, then you can end up wondering whether you were really wanted there or if guilt, manners, or some motivation other than genuinely wanting you there prompted it. Some hostesses may be finicky…they have seating arranged for six and you’re #7, that sort of thing. Buying enough supplies is another issue. Maybe it’s a “girls only” get together. I don’t know; I don’t need to know. I only need marching orders. It’s not my party and I won’t cry if I don’t want to. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t think I’ve said that Diana is complaining about my not showing up, and if I have I misspoke (well, mistyped). She hasn’t. It’s my sister Norma who’s criticized. Of course, as I think on it, she is probably sublimating irritation with me because she knows I am probably going to decline an invitation to an annual dinner she throws three weeks before Thanksgiving. Ah, that might explain it. It’s a little weird that Diana hasn’t said anything about it. It should be, “Oh geez, I didn’t think to tell you that you were invited! So sorry!” and more damage control, if you were really and truly expected to know. But, maybe she’s thinking you have something against her, or that you’d already made plans, or that she’s just embarrassed to have dropped the ball. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-in-the-wrong-in-this-situation-invitation-related/509700.md?page=1)