# Who's more delusional - the Obama birthers or the moon landing deniers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119 "2009-07-24T13:46:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/1 "2009-07-24T13:46:31Z")
I think the birthers have an edge in terms of craziness, because at the least the moon landing deniers aren’t filing lawsuits to “prove” NASA wrong. But either group isn’t going to be swayed by reason, or for that matter, anything short of a time machine to take them back so they can see for themselves what really happened. What are your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/2 "2009-07-24T13:49:37Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > What are your thoughts? Kil em all and let God, if any, sort em out. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/3 "2009-07-24T14:09:38Z")
The sorting will be performed by a massive government conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/4 "2009-07-24T14:13:03Z")
At Obama’s birth, acting alone, was midwife Lee Harvey Oswald . ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/5 "2009-07-24T14:15:11Z")
The moon landing hoax would require hundreds of people in one of the highest visibility events of all time - the Obama thing would take what, some forged paperwork? Not even in the same ballpark. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/6 "2009-07-24T14:17:39Z")
Do we have to choose? They’re like two flavors in a candy store of crazy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/7 "2009-07-24T14:27:53Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I think the birthers have an edge in terms of craziness, because at the least the moon landing deniers aren’t filing lawsuits to “prove” NASA wrong. But either group isn’t going to be swayed by reason, or for that matter, anything short of a time machine to take them back so they can see for themselves what really happened. > What are your thoughts? I’m w/ \*\*SenorBeef \*\*on this. Besides, the lawsuits are political in nature. What would a lawsuit against NASA accomplish? Remember, the birthers are being fed by people who are smart enough to know it’s rubbish, but who just want to annoy Obama and/or undermine his support. ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/8 "2009-07-24T14:29:17Z")
I have to go with the Birthers. The moon landing required a lot of fancy technology. The images were transmitted back and the picture wasn’t really that good when compared to modern images. The claims the hoaxers make are more derived from a misunderstanding of the conditions and physics involved. They refuse to have their ignorance corrected, but one can at least generally understand the error being made. On the other hand, the birthers have been shown the certificate. It’s been examined more closely than they’ve examine their own certificates. The state officials have repeatedly validated it. Outside experts have validated it. The newspapers in the area had his birth announced back when it happened. It’s all intuitive and easily verified by just about anyone who looks for it. There isn’t a lot of room for misunderstanding or error. It’s willful ignorance built on a hatred of Obama’s politics, policies, beliefs, character and / or race. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/9 "2009-07-24T14:43:40Z")
I’d have to go with the Birthers. The moon landing is a hard hoax to swallow, but the birth certificate is simply impossible, for one simple reason. Clinton and McCain are extremely ambitious and resourceful people. If the fake birth certificate had legs, one of them would have discovered it within a month and had Obama kicked out of the race faster than you can say “God damn America.” The GOP would have _killed_ to get a fake certificate, but they let the Kenyan bastard take office. It simply baffles me that common citizens think they know a truth Washington didn’t. Believing Obama is not an American basically requires believing that all of Washington is in on it and the current back and forth partisanship is just…what? A show? An act put on by every single politician and pundit out there? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/10 "2009-07-24T14:44:42Z")
I put the mooners, birthers and truthers all in about the same category of delusion, but I think the birthers are the most virulent and distasteful – all the more so since it’s the only group that’s being encouraged and being given legitimacy by the media. Fox News has been particularly loathesome in that regard. Say what you will about MSNBC, but you never saw them fostering Bushdidit 9/11 conspiracies. And at least the mooners and truthers don’t have that undercurrent of racism that the birthers have. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/11 "2009-07-24T15:20:57Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’d have to go with the Birthers. The moon landing is a hard hoax to swallow, but the birth certificate is simply impossible, for one simple reason. Clinton and McCain are extremely ambitious and resourceful people. If the fake birth certificate had legs, one of them would have discovered it within a month and had Obama kicked out of the race faster than you can say “God damn America.” In fact the McCain campaign did investigate, at least according to this story. > **[washington independent game](http://washingtonindependent.com/)** > > home made city upgrade game about boarding houses, telegraph offices, casinos, federal offices, printing presses, docks, land, carriage works, munitions, hotels. And guess what. They didn’t turn up anything either. > [@](#): > > “To the extent that we could, we looked into the substantive side of these allegations,” said Trevor Potter (general counsel for the McCain campaign). “We never saw any evidence that then-Senator Obama had been born outside of the United States. We saw rumors, but nothing that could be sourced to evidence. There were no statements and no documents that suggested he was born somewhere else. On the other side, there was proof that he was born in Hawaii. There was a certificate issued by the state’s Department of Health, and the responsible official in the state saying that he had personally seen the original certificate. There was a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser, which would be very difficult to invent or plant 47 years in advance.” This is one of the reasons I think the birthers are crazier. Like you mentioned if the GOP had turned up anything, especially toward the end of the campaign when they were resorting to calling Obama a socialist and saying he was pallin’ around with terrorists, they would have put it front and center. After all, this is the same organization that had the gall to use John Kerry’s service in Vietnam to make him look like a total pussy. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/12 "2009-07-24T15:40:54Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’d have to go with the Birthers. The moon landing is a hard hoax to swallow, but the birth certificate is simply impossible, for one simple reason. Clinton and McCain are extremely ambitious and resourceful people. If the fake birth certificate had legs, one of them would have discovered it within a month and had Obama kicked out of the race faster than you can say “God damn America.” The GOP would have _killed_ to get a fake certificate, but they let the Kenyan bastard take office. It simply baffles me that common citizens think they know a truth Washington didn’t. > > Believing Obama is not an American basically requires believing that all of Washington is in on it and the current back and forth partisanship is just…what? A show? An act put on by every single politician and pundit out there? I’m not sure that this makes the birthers nuttier. After all, the moon hoax conspiracy requires the Russians, at the height of the Cold War, to never pipe up with “That rocket never got anywhere close to the moon.” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/13 "2009-07-24T16:02:54Z")
I don’t know if it makes them nuttier, but the birthers is the most disgusting, as it has racism smeared all over it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/14 "2009-07-24T16:20:30Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > I’m not sure that this makes the birthers nuttier. After all, the moon hoax conspiracy requires the Russians, at the height of the Cold War, to never pipe up with “That rocket never got anywhere close to the moon.” True, but on the other hand we haven’t done much with the moon in the last few decades. I can see someone ignoring the mass of people who could blow the whistle on a mock-up job and instead latching onto the idea that the reason we’re not going to the moon now is because we did a one-shot staged event in the 60s. Conversely, Obama _is in office right now_. He’s acting with the authority granted to Presidents and everyone acknowledges that he has a right to it, even if they don’t like it. If he really is Kenyan by birth, he is at this moment violating the Constitution, _and not one single politician is doing anything about it_. You’d think the Supreme Court would be on him like iron filing on a magnet. But the only people who are screaming about this are laymen and pundits egging said laymen on. For the moon hoaxers to be comparable to the birthers, we’d need to have something like a moon habitat with semi-regular travel between it and Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/15 "2009-07-24T16:46:28Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The moon landing hoax would require hundreds of people in one of the highest visibility events of all time - the Obama thing would take what, some forged paperwork? Not even in the same ballpark. There is that but then, as Jon Stewart recently pointed out in a hilarious way, the Obama conspiracy would have to have been planned 47+ years ago to get it rolling, then assume their Manchurian Candidate would manage to win a presidential election 47 years after he weas born. To me that is more of a stretch. At least in that one might suppose the government might want to try a moon hoax but hard to imagine anyone develop a plan that has a snowball’s chance in hell of coming to fruition near 50 years later. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/16 "2009-07-24T16:49:35Z")
Those Kenyans can be extremely clever. I’m still hoping Obama comes to his first state of the union address in a turban and says “HAHA BITCHES! THEY WARNED YOU ALL ALONG BUT YOU DIDN’T LISTEN! Mandatory gay marriages begin tomorrow and a Mosque will be built on every street corner” That’s what I’d do. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/17 "2009-07-24T16:49:53Z")
Not only would they have had to plan this over 47 years ago, but if they were planning a takeover of the U.S. government back then, wouldn’t they have made sure Obama’s mom did give birth in the U.S. and name him Joe Smith or something? If it’s all a plot, it’s a pretty poorly conceived one. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/18 "2009-07-24T16:53:38Z")
> [@C3](#): > > If it’s all a plot, it’s a pretty poorly conceived one. That’s all part of the illusion - it’s _so_ crazy, the sheeple dismiss it. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/19 "2009-07-24T17:15:22Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > For the moon hoaxers to be comparable to the birthers, we’d need to have something like a moon habitat with semi-regular travel between it and Earth. I suppose, although arguing if the moon hoaxers or birthers are the nuttier conspiracy theorists is like asking whether cardinal or scarlet is the redder color. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/20 "2009-07-24T17:17:14Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Not only would they have had to plan this over 47 years ago, but if they were planning a takeover of the U.S. government back then, wouldn’t they have made sure Obama’s mom did give birth in the U.S. and name him Joe Smith or something? If it’s all a plot, it’s a pretty poorly conceived one. Exactly. If they wanted him to be president, why the hell would they name him Barack Hussein Obama. And you have to have remember he was born early on in the Civil Rights era when many blacks were still unable to vote, let alone run for the highest office in the land. You can see how quickly their conspiracy theories fall apart when you start applying logic. Of course logic is a brain function the birthers lack. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119.md?page=2)