# Who's more delusional - the Obama birthers or the moon landing deniers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119 "2009-07-24T13:46:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/61 "2009-07-25T01:34:54Z")
There is such business, but it is irrelevant because Obama was born on US soil. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/62 "2009-07-25T01:56:24Z")
In my opinion, they’re both whackjobs. The birthers for denying reality and the moonies for being stupid idiots. I’m quite sure that a lot of the birthers out there deny his American-ess for the simple reason that he’s black and [tinfoil hat] you KNOW we should never EVER have a black person in a position of ultimate power. [/tinfoil hat] Even more ignorant are [these](http://educate-yourself.org/ct/) nuts, but since they aren’t germaine to this thread I’ll leave them out of this. On preview…what almost everyone else said… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/63 "2009-07-25T02:02:17Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I thought there was some business about Ann Dunham disqualifying because of her age and being out of the US that combined to make her foriegn-born child ineligible for US citizenship–maybe this was more nutjobbery that I got hooked into. [Snopes covered it.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/64 "2009-07-25T02:14:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do we have to choose? They’re like two flavors in a candy store of crazy. Yeah, this. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/65 "2009-07-25T02:48:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Snopes covered it.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp) That just covers if Barack was a natural born citizen. My question was if _not_ being a natural born citizen would’ve affected him in any way other then making him uneligible for the Presidency (and VP), thus giving his parents a reason to plant false birth announcements. I assume that the answers no, that mothers who are citizens can easily get their kids back into the country and naturalized once they return to their home if, for whatever legal technicality, their kid isn’t a citizen in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/66 "2009-07-25T02:56:40Z")
CHIEF ZED: Sorry, guys, we gotta leave this one alone. B’rrr’ooorhakkka’aaa Hssssss Akh-Buumaaiy has a valid Earth residence-and-work permit under the Third Crab Nebula Treaty, and he really **was** hatched in Honolulu. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/67 "2009-07-25T03:14:57Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I thought there was some business about Ann Dunham disqualifying because of her age and being out of the US that combined to make her foriegn-born child ineligible for US citizenship–maybe this was more nutjobbery that I got hooked into. From what I have read, the law at the time conveyed citizenship to the foreign-born children of mothers who had spent five years in the US after the age of 16, which Stanley Dunham did not fulfill, being only 19 at the time of Barack’s birth. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/68 "2009-07-25T03:33:14Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > From what I have read, the law at the time conveyed citizenship to the foreign-born children of mothers who had spent five years in the US after the age of 16, which Stanley Dunham did not fulfill, being only 19 at the time of Barack’s birth. Can anyone cite the actual law, on a government website? It sounds totally fabricated to me. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/69 "2009-07-25T03:53:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Can anyone cite the actual law, on a government website? It sounds totally fabricated to me. Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child. From [here](http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/70 "2009-07-25T04:01:20Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Well, four. Besides the birth certificate, we also have birth announcements in two different newspapers, and the governor of Hawaii says she saw the original. The REPUBLICAN governor of Hawaii, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/71 "2009-07-25T04:02:47Z")
Ah HAH! So its 5 years after the age of _fourteen_, not sixteen! So even if he was born in Kenya, he is still a citizen, as his mother was nineteen when he was born. Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/72 "2009-07-25T04:18:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Ah HAH! So its 5 years after the age of _fourteen_, not sixteen! So even if he was born in Kenya, he is still a citizen, as his mother was nineteen when he was born. > > Q.E.D. According to the birthers, she was 18 when Obama was born. I have no idea if that’s true or not. ETA: just looked it up. She was born 11/42. He was born 8/61. So, she was 18 when she gave birth. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/73 "2009-07-25T04:19:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Ah HAH! So its 5 years after the age of _fourteen_, not sixteen! So even if he was born in Kenya, he is still a citizen, as his mother was nineteen when he was born. Obama was born in August, Durham’s birthday was in November, so she was 18 when he was born. Which sort of makes you wonder why the person who started the email debunked by snopes bothered to lie about the numbers. (of course, if they were going to forge his birth certificate anyways, you’d think his parents would’ve just told US authorities he was born three months later in Kenya instead of going to elaborate lengths to make it look like he was born in the US) ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/74 "2009-07-25T04:28:58Z")
Maybe they should combine them and realize Obama was really born on the moon! ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/75 "2009-07-25T04:31:40Z")
> [@Tamara+](#): > > Maybe they should combine them and realize Obama was really born on the moon! No, too nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/76 "2009-07-25T04:38:52Z")
> [@Tamara+](#): > > Maybe they should combine them and realize Obama was really born on the moon! Except children born on ships and airplanes (and I assume spacecraft) are citizens of the country the ship is registered to, which on the moon would have to be an American ship. So then Obama would still be a natural born citizen. Of course, if the actual US moonlanding was a hoax, but the _Kenyan’s_ actually landed on the moon and then covered it up, and Obama was born on the Kenyan spacecraft, he would indeed be ineligable for the Presidency. Someone should share this theory with Lou Dobbs. ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/77 "2009-07-25T06:35:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You are seriously over-estimating the intelligence of some of these mouth breathers. I bet lots of them are stupid enough to really believe it. Rush and his ilk maintain plausible deniability. No matter how much evidence you show them, they act as if they’ve never seen it. I agree with Voyager. As a cite ,since this is GD, I give you > **[CNN says that Hawaii couldn't have verified Obama's Original B.C. last...](https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2300670/posts)** (Warning, Freerepublic link). There are threads like that on a daily basis over there. They have the fascination of a car crash. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/78 "2009-07-25T10:02:42Z")
Although not a birther, I can at least appreciate their point that there’s a problem that there is nothing in place to ensure that a presidential candidate meets the Constitutional requirements of the job. Everyone always claimed it was someone else’s job to check/disqualify-if-necessary. It was also an issue with Herbert Hoover. It was unclear if he met the residency requirement since he spent so much time in Europe. The issue was convienently ignored. I see it more as people being frustrated with a flaw in the system and a growing concern in the ordinary American that the Constitution is being ignored. Witness the outrage over the _Kelo_ decision - same ballpark. The Moon debunkers are just crazy. Even they cannot agree amongst themselves what happened. We can’t physically go to the Moon or we can, but people can’t survive. A sucessful conspiracy theory involving thousands plus our Cold War enemies. They claim scientifical principles that are continually debunked. But the biggest difference is that while Moon debunkers are continually proven wrong and cling to their beliefs despite that proof, the birthers were never provided with the proof that they requested - the long form BC signed by the doctor at the hospital when he was born. Think how less crazy the Moonies would sound if the only proof we had of going to the Moon was the head of NASA saying “I looked at the records and trust me, we went to the Moon.” For the record, I’m not a Birther, but I too got frustrated with the whole lawsuits being dismissed, certification of birth vs. birth certificate (and yes in Hawaii they are different), did grandma _really_ say he was born in Kenya, etc. and just wanted that long form to come out to settle the issue once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/79 "2009-07-25T10:31:31Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > For the record, I’m not a Birther, but I too got frustrated with the whole lawsuits being dismissed, certification of birth vs. birth certificate (and yes in Hawaii they are different), did grandma _really_ say he was born in Kenya, etc. and just wanted that long form to come out to settle the issue once and for all. How exactly, in Hawaii, are they different ? What exactly does President Obaba have to show to the State department to obtain a US passport other than the document that’s readily available on the web, and that he put on the web ? Please explain this to me. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/80 "2009-07-25T10:46:35Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Except children born on ships and airplanes (and I assume spacecraft) are citizens of the country the ship is registered to, which on the moon would have to be an American ship. So then Obama would still be a natural born citizen. > > Of course, if the actual US moonlanding was a hoax, but the _Kenyan’s_ actually landed on the moon and then covered it up, and Obama was born on the Kenyan spacecraft, he would indeed be ineligable for the Presidency. No, no. It was the Lizard People’s spaceship, not the Kenyans’ spaceship. They are using the Kenyans as tools through their Illuminati connections. The Illuminati were already handling the faked US Moon landings, and needed help from the Lizards to get the special effects right; helping get Obama into power was a quid pro quo. As for your theory; Kenyan spaceships?! Clearly we need to draw the line somewhere when it comes to believability! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119.md?page=5)