# Who's more delusional - the Obama birthers or the moon landing deniers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119 "2009-07-24T13:46:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/141 "2009-07-30T19:54:43Z")
Wow. Orly Taitz is positively loony. And yet, she managed to pass the California Bar Exam. Doesn’t say much for the current version of that exam. :eek: I love the concluding paragraph. She gets a nasty blog comment from someone in Everett, Washington, and posits that this is someone who knows the President because his mother once studied at the Univ. of Seattle. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/142 "2009-07-30T20:05:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > [Orly Taitz](http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-06-18/news/orly-taitz) is the scary-insane one. Where she comes up with some of this shit… She must not have read the article, because when Colbert brought up Chester Alan Arthur last night, she seemed surprised. Oddly enough, most of the comments on the article are sane, with fewer nuts writing in than I had expected - mostly from Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/143 "2009-07-30T20:18:44Z")
Not that this really has any relevance, but wasn’t Barack Sr. an American citizen simply by virtue of being married to one? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/144 "2009-07-30T20:20:11Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > So would that mean anyone with a forebearer who came to the U.S. after the American Revolution would not be considered a citizen? While Orly is crazy stupid, I don’t think she’s quite _that_ crazy stupid. A couple could emigrate here, become citizens (although not a natural born citizen) and then have a kid on American soil. The kid would be a natural born citizen, while his parents are foreign-born citizens. Now, all she has to do is demonstrate where any part of American law supports this definition. I would recommend against holding your breath while waiting for that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/145 "2009-07-30T20:29:01Z")
I am curious about the persistence of this thread…is there an anxiety out there in SDMB land? Methinks the posters doth protest too much… As a US citizen born overseas, it seems to me every citizenship issue except those involving what is on any original (not “official”) documents is nonsense. If the original hospital record and (handwritten) notations around Mr Obama’s birth are available, let them be produced to quench the nervous nellies. It doesn’t surprise me that an “official” document w/ information entered by a clerk off a handwritten original doesn’t quell suspicions of the angry and paranoid; I can get those sort of birth records on my kids willy nilly at the local courthouse, and there’s only one person who would need to jimmy up an “official” document of birth. But if the original hospital record and hand-done birth form can’t be found; hey–it can’t be found, buddy. Move [on.org](http://on.org). There’s no privacy issue here, so I have always assumed all original documents are lost (and by “original” I’m not talking about that clerk-generated “official” form that gets trotted about; I’m talking about the hospital records and paper form we fill out when a baby shows up). Given the tiny fraction of people who must actually consider this an issue I can’t figure out the persistence of this thread, although I admit to not reading it. Sorry; I am a bit bored today, but not that bored. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/146 "2009-07-30T20:40:30Z")
Forget it ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/147 "2009-07-30T20:51:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not that this really has any relevance, but wasn’t Barack Sr. an American citizen simply by virtue of being married to one? I believe you still have to apply for citizenship. It’s not automatically granted through marrying a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/148 "2009-07-30T20:57:18Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Methinks the posters doth protest too much… If insane conspiracy theories become true because people shoot them down, the Internet proves every conspiracy theory is true. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/149 "2009-07-30T21:18:16Z")
Methings Chief Pedant is just a birther predending to be amused/distant. He’s spouting too much birther dogma to be a casual passerby. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/150 "2009-07-30T21:26:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not that this really has any relevance, but wasn’t Barack Sr. an American citizen simply by virtue of being married to one? I understand current US law does not pass citizenship (or even residency rights) automatically in case of marriage. Of course the relevant law was the law of the 1960s; that might have been different. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/151 "2009-07-30T21:30:35Z")
I know a guy who married an American woman and still had to apply for citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/152 "2009-07-30T22:15:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I believe you still have to apply for citizenship. It’s not automatically granted through marrying a citizen. Indeed not. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/153 "2009-07-30T22:55:53Z")
Ok, so I feel a need to weigh in on the OP. Here’s the Knorf wacko scale, with a (1) being lowest/least dangerous, (10) being highest/most dangerous. The scale is combination of two factors: one being how little evidence there is (1 to 5, 5 being least available evidence), two being how dangerous/disruptive people who believe said silliness are (0 to 5, 5 being very dangerous). Wacko candidates (Lack of evidence + danger factor = Rating): Holocaust deniers (5+5 = **10** ) Racists (5 + 5 = **10** ) Bell-curve style racists (4 + 5 = **9** ) Scientologists (5 + 3 = **8** ) Young earth creationists (5 + 3 = **8** ) UFO/Paranormal believers (5 + 2 = **7** ) Moon landing hoaxists (5 + 2 = **7** ) Obama birthers (4 + 3 = **7** ) Astrologists (5 + 1 = **6** ) Bible inerrency/literalists (5 + 1 = **6** ) JFK Conspiracy believers (4 + 1 = **5** ) People who think legalizing hemp will solve all our problems (5 + 0 = **5** ) People who are afraid of fluoridated drinking water (4 + 0 = **4** ) Your average Libertarian (2 + 2 = **4** ) People who think solar power will solve all our problems (2 + 1 = **3** ) People who think charter schools are the answer to problems with public schools (3 + 0 = **3** ) Your average Republican (2 + 1 = **3** ) Your average Democrat (1 + 2 = **3** ) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/154 "2009-07-30T22:57:34Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > FDR Conspiracy believers (4 + 2 = **5** ) Damn Rosenfelt stole our number 6! Other than that your scale intrigues me. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/155 "2009-07-30T22:58:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Damn Rosenfelt stole our number 6! > > Other than that your scale intrigues me. I corrected a couple typos. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/156 "2009-07-30T23:02:35Z")
What “FDR conspiracy believers”? Are you referring to the [Business Plot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot) against FDR (which, if it was real, accomplished nothing)? Or to a conspiracy **by** FDR? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/157 "2009-07-30T23:04:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not that this really has any relevance, but wasn’t Barack Sr. an American citizen simply by virtue of being married to one? It doesn’t… but suppose it did. Would that matter to the Birthers? Of course not. Nothing would change their minds. The production of a birth certificate didn’t change their minds. Verification by independent parties didn’t change their minds. No evidence changes their minds; they simply invent more evidence. Orly Taitz, who is quite obviously suffering from some mental problems, has about 1,700 arguments why Obama’s not a citizen. Go ahead and knock down Reason 893. She’s got 1,699 others. The simple truth is that the reason the Birthers think Obama’s not eligible to be President is that **he’s a nigger.** I’m sorry to use a mean word - I feel dirty typing it - but that is the word that sums up their position and best describes their thought process. And to them, a _nigger_ shouldn’t be President, because a _nigger_ isn’t a real American. A real American would be white, and have a whitish name. Bill Clinton was every bit as much a “socialist” as Barack Obama is, every bit as objectionable to the social conservatives and the religious nuts, but you didn’t hear this nonsense. You know why? 'Cause he’s white. That’s the beginning and end of this entire issue. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/158 "2009-07-30T23:07:03Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > People who think legalizing hemp will solve all our problems (5 + 0 = **5** ) Oh no. A “5” for lack of evidence? Maybe lack of evidence that legalizing hemp will _ **solve all our problems, but there is significant and compelling evidence that legalizing hemp will improve** _ a lot of things. Don’t want to hijack, but hemp is a useful crop with some real environmental and economic potential. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/159 "2009-07-30T23:36:36Z")
Cite for anyone who says legalizing hemp will solve “all of our problems”? And what “evidence” does there need to be to belong to a political party? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/160 "2009-07-31T02:14:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What “FDR conspiracy believers”? Are you referring to the [Business Plot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot) against FDR (which, if it was real, accomplished nothing)? Or to a conspiracy **by** FDR? Typo, long since corrected. > [@Procrustus](#): > > Oh no. A “5” for lack of evidence? Maybe lack of evidence that legalizing hemp will _ **solve all our problems, but there is significant and compelling evidence that legalizing hemp will improve** _ a lot of things. Don’t want to hijack, but hemp is a useful crop with some real environmental and economic potential. I think a lot of hemp advocates think legalizing hemp will improve a lot more than is remotely possible. Maybe hemp-advocacy wackos should be a 3 or 4. > [@cricetus](#): > > Cite for anyone who says legalizing hemp will solve “all of our problems”? And what “evidence” does there need to be to belong to a political party? Geez, don’t take it too seriously. Anyway, I have known quite a few people who seemed to think legalizing hemp would totally turn around the U.S. economy and make everyone happy all at once. Wackos, but endearing wackos. A typical Democrat or Republican doesn’t just “belong” to the party; they believe in at least a significant portion of said party’s propaganda. Attempt to de-hijack: right now, I’m thinking Obama birthers deserve a slightly higher wacko rating, since they’re the more disruptive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119.md?page=9)