# Who's more delusional - the Obama birthers or the moon landing deniers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119 "2009-07-24T13:46:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/161 "2009-07-31T02:54:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Bill Clinton was every bit as much a “socialist” as Barack Obama is, every bit as objectionable to the social conservatives and the religious nuts, but you didn’t hear this nonsense. You know why? 'Cause he’s white. That’s the beginning and end of this entire issue. I thought he was our first black president. Er, second, after Harding, who was also our first vampire president. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/162 "2009-07-31T03:30:07Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Methings Chief Pedant is just a birther predending to be amused/distant. He’s spouting too much birther dogma to be a casual passerby. The Pedant, usually knowledgeable about topics he posts on, is so clueless about this topic he’s not even sure what “birther dogma” is… If I took up the torch, I’m confident I’d have you believing in no time, though. 😉 The extent of my knowledge is: 1. Some folks don’t think Mr Obama is a citizen. 2. The only thing Mr Obama has presented to the contrary is the official birth certificate–i.e. that thing you get when you ask the county clerk for a copy of your birth certificate. I got 'em for my kids so they can get passports and stuff. That’s it. That’s all I got, and I’m happy to admit I know nothing else, and the two things I think I know might be wrong… As a physician, I can tell you when someone is born there is a whole boatload of hospital records, including (40 years ago) a hand-filled-out form around the birth, but also stuff like “…primigravida admitted at term; 8 cm dilated and 90% effaced…” If I were Mr Obama, I’d either blow off the nutcases and give ‘em nuttin’–they’ll just move on to the next conspiracy–or give 'em my hospital record and send them back to their holes to cook up the next complaint. If no records were available, I’d just say, “Sir; no records are available. You may continue to address me as Mr President until you find some to the contrary.” I guess I am assuming Mr Obama has produced all he has (since there would be no reason to withhold exculpatory documents) or else just doesn’t care. Neither do I. I rather think most of these “birther” people probably just don’t like the man. Were he their type, I doubt they’d be harassing him over the issue. Nor will I be belaboring this thread anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/163 "2009-07-31T03:52:51Z")
There is absolutely no document or record that Obama or anybody else could possibly present which would shut up the birthers. They’d just say it was fake, like they’re already saying the perfectly valid Certificate of Live Birth is fake. They will say any newly produced document is faked, and any witness is a liar. As the saying goes, you can’t reason people of of something they were never reasoned into in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/164 "2009-07-31T05:55:41Z")
I’m afraid Dio is right. ---
**Author:** ![mrpayday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@mrpayday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrpayday)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/165 "2009-07-31T08:52:46Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I thought he was our first black president. Er, second, after Harding, who was also our first vampire president. First Blacula president then. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/166 "2009-07-31T11:43:01Z")
Anti-fluoridation types actually are a bit (potentially) harmful, what with attacking Russia and all. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/167 "2009-07-31T11:47:53Z")
Just out of curiosity. What if Obama was born in Kenya, would it actually have any difference regarding his status as a natural born citizen? His mother was an American after all. John McCain was born abroad (though on a US. naval base if it makes any difference) and nobody claimed he wasn’t a natural born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/168 "2009-07-31T12:07:57Z")
The citizen parent has to have been on US soil for at least five years after turning 14; Obama’s mother wasn’t old enough to have done so. That law was changed in the 80s but was not retroactive. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/169 "2009-07-31T14:41:35Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > A typical Democrat or Republican doesn’t just “belong” to the party; they believe in at least a significant portion of said party’s propaganda. Yeah, and the party platform is usually pulled out of people’s asses. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/170 "2009-07-31T14:58:19Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Oh no. A “5” for lack of evidence? Maybe lack of evidence that legalizing hemp will _ **solve all our problems, but there is significant and compelling evidence that legalizing hemp will improve** _ a lot of things. Don’t want to hijack, but hemp is a useful crop with some real environmental and economic potential. And is grown all over the world with very little impact. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/171 "2009-07-31T15:12:28Z")
> [@mrpayday](#): > > First Blacula president then. Jefferson Twilight and a time machine could explain so much about our nation’s past… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/172 "2009-07-31T15:17:38Z")
> [@Roulette](#): > > I have to go with the Birthers. > > The moon landing required a lot of fancy technology. The images were transmitted back and the picture wasn’t really that good when compared to modern images. The claims the hoaxers make are more derived from a misunderstanding of the conditions and physics involved. They refuse to have their ignorance corrected, but one can at least generally understand the error being made. > > On the other hand, the birthers have been shown the certificate. It’s been examined more closely than they’ve examine their own certificates. The state officials have repeatedly validated it. Outside experts have validated it. The newspapers in the area had his birth announced back when it happened. It’s all intuitive and easily verified by just about anyone who looks for it. There isn’t a lot of room for misunderstanding or error. It’s willful ignorance built on a hatred of Obama’s politics, policies, beliefs, character and / or race. This. The birthers are clearly crazier than the moon landing deniers, in the same way that someone who believes that he can fly like Superman if he says the right magic words is crazier than someone who believes that he’s found a way to square the circle with straightedge and compass – in each case, the former claim is much more **obviously** absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/173 "2009-07-31T16:10:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Yeah, and the party platform is usually pulled out of people’s asses. :rolleyes: Apparently you’ve never been to a party convention. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/174 "2009-07-31T16:24:49Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The citizen parent has to have been on US soil for at least five years after turning 14; Obama’s mother wasn’t old enough to have done so. That law was changed in the 80s but was not retroactive. I am defintiely not trying to be snarky, but could I have a cite? Not because I don’t beleive you, but I want to show it to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/175 "2009-07-31T16:32:47Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I am defintiely not trying to be snarky, but could I have a cite? Not because I don’t beleive you, but I want to show it to someone else. See post #69 in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/176 "2009-07-31T17:09:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The courts are dismissing them because they’re utter bullshit. To [quote the Master] ([Is U.S. income tax invalid because Ohio wasn’t legally a state when the 16th amendment was ratified? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1115/is-u-s-income-tax-invalid-because-ohio-wasnt-legally-a-state-when-the-16th-amendment-was-ratified)): “Cecil understands that the courts don’t want to open the door to substantive review of the Ohio argument, lest they be inundated by clowns seeking to have the government dissolved due to clerical error.” The same principle applies here, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/177 "2009-07-31T17:35:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What would be the constitutional mechanism for removing a President who was found to be non-compliant with the “natural born” requirement for office? I doubt if he is going quietly, and I don’t think it rises to the level of a “high crime or misdemeanor”, though that is conspicuously vague for purposes of impeachment. At the very least there would have to be an impeachment and conviction. If there **were** any truth to this Birther nonsense, then Barack Obama would be illegally occupying the office of President. If so, that would surely constitute a “high crime or misdemeanor” which could be addressed via impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/178 "2009-07-31T20:34:48Z")
Actually, it would be easier for the Vice President and the Cabinet to remove Obama under the 25th Amendment, Section 4, arguing that as a nonAmerican by birth, Obama “is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”. Obama can challenge and Congress can, by two-thirds vote in both chambers, support the Veep and allow him to continue as Acting President. It’d be quicker than impeachment and need not involve the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/179 "2009-07-31T20:38:01Z")
Meanwhile, there’s this: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raCRSjnT0Wc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raCRSjnT0Wc) It’s best to watch without an explanation, but it’s some crazy peacher guy breaking down a passage from the NT to suggest that Jesus named Barack Obama as the Antichrist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119/180 "2009-07-31T21:05:23Z")
Hannity plays to the antichristers too. He’s more subtle about it. He does montages of Obama while playing the theme to the Omen, and does a lot of the “one” language, trying to perpetuate the right wing fantasy that the left sees Obama as a “savior” figure. I think Beck plays to it as well. They tread more carefully with that one because they know it’s really. REALLY nuts, but they don’t want to _discourage_ anyone from believing it either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-delusional-the-obama-birthers-or-the-moon-landing-deniers/504119.md?page=10)