This is why I’ve read some prominent conservative bloggers arguing against the rumor, in spite of overwhelming opposition from their commenters. They (the bloggers) feel that it provides Obama an easy, humorous “out” to keep from dealing with their (more) legitimate concerns (ie jokingly comparing them to Birthers). I remember one in November even remarking that Obama probably loves it so much, he’d have given Birthers booths at the inauguration if he could.
Birthers are not conspiracy theorists. They are liars. They know the facts and say something else. That’s called lying.
But if your lie is a theory involving a conspiracy, it is also a conspiracy theory and you are also a conspiracy theorist.
Kind of like how you can be both ignorant and stupid.
My point, as clumsy as it was, is that there isn’t a single person who really doubts Obama was born in Hawaii. The reason the arguments have failed is because non-birthers try to convince them of the facts (which the birthers known), instead of just calling them on being liars.
Hmm. I take your point, but personally I think you’re underestimating the stupidity - and laziness - of people. I know an incredible number of people who will hear and believe the liar without question - and repeat the theory without bothering to confirm that it’s true.
At least a FEW of the moon landing Truthers are putting us on (just as the Flat Earthers don’t REALLY believe the world is flat). So, they
re a bit less stupid/crazy than the rabid Obama Birthers.
But neither is as vile, stupid, crazy, or flat out mean as the people obsessing over Trig Palin’s birth.
The Moon Hoaxers are probably the more delusional, ignoring the fact that out of the thousands who actually worked on the Apollo program not one has ever come forth to acknowledge that something was amiss. That and I’m sure that if the Soviet Union had any inkling that the missions were faked, they would have had a field day with it.
But the birthers are the ones with the potential to cause most trouble in that they have people who should know better and have a national platform - Rep. Bill Posey, Lou Dobbs, Liz Cheney, any number of right wing radio talk show hosts - egging them on.
As far as I can tell no one of national prominence is supporting the Moon Hoaxers, and even if they were, they’re a relatively harmless bunch. What they’re advocating seems to be more for their own personal satisfaction (the need to believe that they’re in on some big secret) rather than an attempt to game the political system.
Bullshit! You rigged that machine to take us to a parallel timeline! :mad:
I really think they do.
Actually, the Moon landing was real, but the footage was faked at a sound studio in Roswell, NM. This was done to cover up the real purpose of the Apollo program, i.e., a diplomatic mission to the Selenites, exchanging Tang for Velcro and digital-watch technology.
That’s where I disagree. I think their defense of libel is “believing” non-facts. That is not an ethical defense, and it is not a legal defense. They are simply liars, with pants afire, and everybody needs to call them on it.
That’s why the media has to stop saying “the facts are these, but so-and-so believes this.” They have to say, “These are the facts, the facts are known to G Gordon Liddy, Rush Limbaugh, etc., and they continue to spread lies. Because they are liars.”
You are seriously over-estimating the intelligence of some of these mouth breathers. I bet lots of them are stupid enough to really believe it. Rush and his ilk maintain plausible deniability. No matter how much evidence you show them, they act as if they’ve never seen it.
BTW, how do they handle the evidence of the birth announcements? Do they just ignore them?
They lie about them.
Those could’ve been phoned in from Kenya! :mad:
A coupla points: Jon Stewart was funny, but illogical. His parents didn’t have to plan to elect their baby President 47 years from 1961 to engage in a fraud. They simply could have wanted to make a baby born on foreign soil a natural-born citizen which Obama then exploited when he developed Presidential ambitions. It’s still nutty but not quite the wild leap in logic or motive Stewart was m0cking.
And the moon hoaxers are plainly lunatics because they have a massive conspiracy without motive or means–it’s just nutjobbery, plain and simple. But some of the birthers have a clear, cynical, serious political motive, much like the motive for throwing wrenches into Health Care: to interfere with Obama’s popularity. In the absence of a real counter-plan, or ideas, or pretty much anything, they’re just trying to exploit anything that will detract from a perception that he’s not such a bad President. That isn’t crazy–it’s ludicrous, and ineffectual, but it’s far from insane.
Is there any advantage to being a natural born citizen other then being eligable for the Presidency (and the Vice-Presidency, I guess)? I assume a child born to an American mother wouldn’t have any problem getting back into the country and then getting US citizenship regardless of where he was born, so I can’t really think of any advantage to faking a Hawiian birth as opposed to Ann Durham simply naturalizing him when she got back to the states.
No, for the birth announcements and the registered certificate to exist, they must either be real, or have been faked at the time.
I thought there was some business about Ann Dunham disqualifying because of her age and being out of the US that combined to make her foriegn-born child ineligible for US citizenship–maybe this was more nutjobbery that I got hooked into.