# Who's more honorable in relationships, men or women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 22, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061 "2011-12-22T07:43:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/101 "2011-12-22T23:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > ETA - did you really just come in here and call women whores when they choose to be w/ a man who will provide them and their future children w/ stability? Why yes, yes he did. As opposed to a woman who picks a 100% unsuitable man (for marriage/parenting/etc.) based on his looks and body because that’s “pure”. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/102 "2011-12-22T23:26:47Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I suspect that goes both ways, or perhaps is weighted against you more than you even realize. > YO fail to mention relationships where men are with men and women are with women; OP, who do YOU think is more honorable in those relationships? > ETA - did you really just come in here and call women whores when they choose to be w/ a man who will provide them and their future children w/ stability? > > I forget, is it \*\*troll \*\*we’re not allowed to call someone or **sock**? I’m willing to call the OP a troll and be warned to find out. I tend to think homosexual relationships are a spectrum of some sort of equal partnership to emulating heterosexual behaviors. I find a lot of lesbians to be pretty hostile and therefore not particularly fun to interact with but they are probably the more honorable of the groups. Lesbians are usually very loyal and honest. Homosexual men often have the sugardaddy old guy young guy thing going on and while some young guys are really into that making it fine a lot are just trying to get the financial so I think ya it leans toward lesbians pretty strongly. Plenty of good gay male relationships of course. I did not come here to call women whores, of course once someone provoked the analogy and I used it to call out the obvious weakness of their argument other posters latched onto the word as I figured they would, and continued to compel me to comment on it. I don’t think most women are whores especially since even most that use success as a component for granting viability to a relationship don’t use it wholly or are equally successful to the wealthy man they pursue. It’s pretty easy to dismiss someone with the word “troll”. Just seems to mean “Person talking about controversial topic, person who responds often, person I disagree with.” ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/103 "2011-12-22T23:29:23Z")
So basically you subscribe to the concept of feminism where as long as you say women “should be equal” you can go on to spout a bunch of sexist garbage? ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/104 "2011-12-22T23:30:19Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > Why yes, yes he did. As opposed to a woman who picks a 100% unsuitable man (for marriage/parenting/etc.) based on his looks and body because that’s “pure”. You forgot personality, intelligence, unique qualities. You know things you’re with someone for because you love them? This seems hard to swallow: “I love you so much honey, but if you lose your job and we go into debt and it looks like we’ll have to move to an apartment and I have to sell my jewelry well, I will stop loving you.” ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/105 "2011-12-22T23:30:29Z")
I think the OP illustrates part of the reason why many feminists don’t like it when men label themselves as feminists. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/106 "2011-12-22T23:33:51Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > So basically you subscribe to the concept of feminism where as long as you say women “should be equal” you can go on to spout a bunch of sexist garbage? The only thing I’ve said that people want to very much call sexism is that women in western culture value status and financial success highly when they chose mates and that I think that’s disgusting. In my opinion the moment women aren’t doing this anymore is the moment a society acceptable to a feminist exists. I guess me wanting a woman to love me for me is terribly sexist. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/107 "2011-12-22T23:37:56Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > I think the OP illustrates part of the reason why many feminists don’t like it when men label themselves as feminists. People that call themselves feminists don’t like it when anyone they disagree with about gender issues calls themselves a feminist. I am annoyed at what I see as self-defeating behavior of women that prevents them from realizing equality with men in society I believe we should have equality of the sexes, that makes me a feminist. (I mean I’d love to call it Gender Equitism since it would be a better phrase for the concept but we have what we have) ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/108 "2011-12-22T23:50:28Z")
I’d find it easier to take your claimed feminism seriously if you didn’t make quite so many negative generalizations about women. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/109 "2011-12-22T23:50:42Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > I am annoyed at what I see as self-defeating behavior of women that prevents them from realizing equality with men in society Aw, he only cares about us. He calls women whores out of love and deep, deep respect. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/110 "2011-12-22T23:58:39Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Aw, he only cares about us. He calls women whores out of love and deep, deep respect. Most people don’t deserve much respect, women are no special case. Women that enter into relationships out of financial interest where they would prefer a relationship with someone else if not for the money are not to be respected and so long as they get to steer the boat any self respecting feminist would agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/111 "2011-12-23T00:07:26Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Most people don’t deserve much respect, women are no special case. Women that enter into relationships out of financial interest where they would prefer a relationship with someone else if not for the money are not to be respected and so long as they get to steer the boat any self respecting feminist would agree with me. Why would feminists care why someone gets married, so long as everyone is doing it freely? Wanting equality doesn’t mean demanding everyone meet my personal litmus test for wise decision making. Wanting equality doesn’t mean demanding everyone be smart or kind or generous or anything. It means wanting everyone to be equal. Equality doesn’t mean goodness. Santa’s good, but he’s still the boss o’ them elves. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/112 "2011-12-23T00:10:22Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Most people don’t deserve much respect, women are no special case. Women that enter into relationships out of financial interest where they would prefer a relationship with someone else if not for the money are not to be respected and so long as they get to steer the boat any self respecting feminist would agree with me. It’s not my battle, but I’ll say that I don’t think you quite “get” feminism if that’s what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/113 "2011-12-23T00:13:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Why would feminists care why someone gets married, so long as everyone is doing it freely? Wanting equality doesn’t mean demanding everyone meet my personal litmus test for wise decision making. Wanting equality doesn’t mean demanding everyone be smart or kind or generous or anything. It means wanting everyone to be equal. > > Equality doesn’t mean goodness. Santa’s good, but he’s still the boss o’ them elves. Its a good point. there are plenty of Machiavellian feminists out there to be sure. Most feminists I’ve talked to get pretty annoyed at women who do this since it’s a symptom of inequality for women. Women have less opportunity, less money, marrying for position becomes an attractive option, ect. It’s like feminists being annoyed at omen who intentionally act like ditzes to attract men, it might be smart under some circumstances but it’s really not helping the cause, well it hurts it actually. I guess marry a rich guy and use his money to help feminism is something you could swing by them. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/114 "2011-12-23T00:18:04Z")
I remember when my mom married my stepdad to save us kids from the ghetto we were living in. It was a sad day when she had to commit hara-kiri for bringing dishonor upon our family name. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/115 "2011-12-23T00:22:06Z")
Just think of all the horrible Macchiavellian schemers who factor in a potential partner’s ability to pay for potential kids’ piano lessons and orthodontics. O women, will you never cease your vile grasping? ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/116 "2011-12-23T00:22:43Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > The only thing I’ve said that people want to very much call sexism is that women in western culture value status and financial success highly when they chose mates and that I think that’s disgusting. > > In my opinion the moment women aren’t doing this anymore is the moment a society acceptable to a feminist exists. As **mister nyx** says, this isn’t my battle, but frankly women don’t need you tell them what is or isn’t acceptable for them. Your disgust is your problem. There’s absolutely no right or wrong reason to be attracted to someone. Claiming that “status” is dishonorable but looks are “pure” shows nothing but your own bias. And hell I’m not a woman but from my experience women are as into dudes’ looks as men are into ladies’. (from a heterocentric viewpoint, obvs.) > [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > I guess me wanting a woman to love me for me is terribly sexist. …but what’s that about you not being bitter? ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/117 "2011-12-23T00:35:57Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Let me preface this by saying that I consider myself a feminist. Women should get equal pay, be treated as equals, be able to be in the military in any role, are just as intelligent, and should not have to be submissive in any way shape or form. I like strong independent women with unique qualities. In fact the 50’s traditional(self-oppressing) woman is the one I’m least attracted to. (Also I’ve gotten plenty, get plenty have had very long term monogamous relationships. I am not bitter, just disappointed.) **Untoward\_Parable** wants equal pay for equal work not for equality’s sake, but because then women will be less likely to be whores. He doesn’t like the traditional 50’s woman because he wants them to have their own paychecks, so they’re less likely to want his. He’s not saying all women are whores, just most of them, in general. He’s not bitter, just disappointed that there are so many whores out there. He’s not a misogynist because he truly loves women, just not the whorish ones. He is a real feminist, saving women from their whorish natures, so they can be more honorable like men. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/118 "2011-12-23T00:36:20Z")
Some great feminist quotes I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat or a prostitute. ~Rebecca West I wish someone would have told me that, just because I’m a girl, I don’t have to get married. ~Marlo Thomas Women are the only oppressed group in our society that lives in intimate association with their opressors. ~Evelyn Cunningham I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naïve or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman. ~Anaïs Nin There is a special place in hell for women who do not help other women. ~Madeleine K. Albright I ask no favors for my sex… All I ask of our brethren is that they will take their feet from off our necks. ~Sarah Moore Grimké Most women are one man away from welfare. ~Gloria Steinem I asked a Burmese why women, after centuries of following their men, now walk ahead. He said there were many unexploded land mines since the war. ~Robert Mueller Every time we liberate a woman, we liberate a man. ~Margaret Mead Women’s chains have been forged by men, not by anatomy. ~Estelle R. Ramey I think, therefore I’m single. ~Lizz Winstead I can’t be a rose in any man’s lapel. ~Margaret Trudeau No man is as anti-feminist as a really feminine woman. ~Frank O’Connor Easy is an adjective used to describe a woman who has the sexual morals of a man. ~Nancy Linn-Desmond Isn’t that the problem? That women have been swindled for centuries into substituting adornment for love, fashion (as it were) for passion? ~Erica Jong Young wives are the leading asset of corporate power. They want the suburbs, a house, a settled life, and respectability. They want society to see that they have exchanged themselves for something of value. ~Ralph Nader Any intelligent woman who reads the marriage contract, and then goes into it, deserves all the consequences. ~Isadora Duncan It’s hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your head. ~Sally Kempton, Esquire, 1970 Marriage is for women the commonest mode of livelihood, and the total amount of undesired sex endured by women is probably greater in marriage than in prostitution. ~Bertrand Russell, Marriage and Morals ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/119 "2011-12-23T00:37:16Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Its a good point. there are plenty of Machiavellian feminists out there to be sure. Most feminists I’ve talked to get pretty annoyed at women who do this since it’s a symptom of inequality for women. Then bitch at the system, not the symptom. Bitching at women for doing something you consider a _symptom_ of inequality is like bitching at women for getting paid less than men. That doesn’t make any sense. (Not that I think it’s really a major symptom of inequality for women.) Some people value financial stability more than others do. There’s nothing wrong with considering it to be of value, especially given the role finances often play in marital stability. It’s hard to make a marriage work, and even harder if you’re struggling to put food on the table. The more external stresses you have, the more it is likely to impact the relationship, and money is one of the biggest subjects of marital arguments and discord. Choosing a partner based on money alone would be stupid (as would choosing them based on any one characteristic you can name) but not the _stupidest_. That would probably have to be choosing someone based on what brand of socks they wear or how many White Castles they can eat in a single sitting. Mmm, sexy! ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061/120 "2011-12-23T00:37:40Z")
Quit using the world honorable. It’s just weird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-honorable-in-relationships-men-or-women/607061.md?page=7)