# Who's More Wrong Here? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880 "2003-10-22T11:45:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/41 "2003-10-22T17:17:20Z")
While gold prospecting near Leadville, Colorado I had the same thing happen to me. I placed two $20.[sup]00[/sup] bills into the folder for a $19.[sup]00[/sup] tab (_so I could get some tip change_). The only difference was that I didn’t say, “Keep the change.” Shitheaded waitress just decided for me that I was a heavy tipper. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/42 "2003-10-22T17:24:17Z")
The customer probably wouldn’t want a gift certificate. He’s in town on business. There’s no guarentee he’d be able to use it before he went home again, and no guarentee he’ll be back at a later point. At any rate, I think he should let it go. Shit happens if you’re not careful… ---
**Author:** ![Qburn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/bc79bd/32.png) [@Qburn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qburn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/43 "2003-10-22T17:27:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*I think the manager of the restaurant should cover for Jeff in this instance. Give the customer a $20 gift certificate, or invite him back to have a free meal while he’s still in town. > \*\* I agree. I work with many clients who are wingnuts and misinformed, but the customer is always right. Businesses depend on repeat customers and good ‘word of mouth’. My SO was a teller in a bank, new bills DO stick together. Check it out next time you get some at an atm. The customer made an honest mistake. The restaurant can ask the waiter for the 20 back, but at least the restaurant can bear the cost of the customers mistake better than the waiter. They can take it out of advertising expenses. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/44 "2003-10-22T17:32:41Z")
I would say Jeff was only responsible to give it back if the customer had actually caught him before he left. Like **Gary** said, a lot of wait staff make plans according to their tips that night. If he bought an extra couple of pitchers for his buddies after work and then finds he has to pay back the twenty, he would have a right to be pissed off. Another vote for calling it a twenty dollar lesson. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/45 "2003-10-22T17:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > But here’s another hypothetical. Would your opinion change had the gentleman in question left an appropriate tip of, say, 20%? > > Let’s say, for example, his bill had been $10 and he left $40 by accident, only intending to leave $20. > > Would that change things? Heck yes that would change things. If I was given a generous tip to start with and the extra was a mistake I would feel bound to give back the extra. As the story is told I feel like most people and wouldn’t expect Jeff to give back the money. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/46 "2003-10-22T17:45:55Z")
COunt me in on the side that thinks the customer probably shouldn’t be asking for the money back, but ultimately, if he wants it back then Jeff should give it back. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/47 "2003-10-22T17:50:51Z")
customer’s mistake. Mgnt’s responsibility to fix customer attitude. I’d say that the best course is to offer the guy a gift certficate or cash from the resto’s till. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/48 "2003-10-22T18:08:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*The customer probably wouldn’t want a gift certificate. He’s in town on business. There’s no guarentee he’d be able to use it before he went home again, and no guarentee he’ll be back at a later point. > > At any rate, I think he should let it go. Shit happens if you’re not careful… \*\* That’s the whole point, then it’s win for the owner, win for Jeff, and the customer thought he was rewarded. I was in Mexico, and I paid a cab driver for a fair that should have cost $1.50. I have no idea how much I paid him, but he started thanking God and me, so there’s no way I’d ask for it back. I still wonder how much I gave him. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/49 "2003-10-22T18:34:43Z")
1. Customer is a flaming bunghole. 2. If push comes to shove, Jeff is probably better off giving the twenty back. Not because “it’s the right thing to do” but because customer sounds like he would raise a stink over the whole thing. 3. This is coming from someone who HAS tipped an extra $20 by mistake. I figured my loss was her gain. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/50 "2003-10-22T18:36:53Z")
I’ll say this: if the customer had come back in, apologized profusely for the confusion, and asked if Jeff would be willing to give him the money back because he was poor – in other words, if the customer had made it clear he was at fault and had asked Jeff to do him a favor by breaking standard customer-waiter protocol – then I’d be a lot more sympathetic to the customer. However, it sounds as if the customer approached it as a right for him to get the money back from Jeff, and even made it sound as if Jeff were at fault. If he wants to play rough, then Jeff has every right to play rough right back with him. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/51 "2003-10-22T18:52:20Z")
I’m willing to bet they were those brand new 20 dollar bills. Have you guys seen those things? They _really_ stick together. I’ve almost given two of them away on a few seperate occasions since they came out. Now I rub them between my fingers to make certain there aren’t two of them. That being said, what I’m reading here, which I didn’t notice has been mentioned, is that if the guy said “keep the change” KNOWING that he was leaving a shitty tip, then he’s an asshole. You know - “here ya go big fella - this is all for you” and then leaving a pittance. I think he should have realized that his smart-assedness karma had repayed him immediately and he’s an even bigger asshole for demanding it back now. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/52 "2003-10-22T18:52:46Z")
I’ll say this: if the customer had come back in, apologized profusely for the confusion, and asked if Jeff would be willing to give him the money back because he was poor – in other words, if the customer had made it clear he was at fault and had asked Jeff to do him a favor by breaking standard customer-waiter protocol – then I’d be a lot more sympathetic to the customer. However, it sounds as if the customer approached it as a right for him to get the money back from Jeff, and even made it sound as if Jeff were at fault. If he wants to play rough, then Jeff has every right to play rough right back with him. Daniel hoping he doesn’t double-post ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/53 "2003-10-22T20:35:09Z")
Well, well! I come back to find my thread has grown to 2 pages. I guess everybody feels strongly about Jeff And The Cheapass. 😃 To fill in the blanks for those who were wondering, I agree that Chris mishandled the whole thing. I think he should have either a.) Told the guy he’s up a creek, so that the guy doesn’t come back, or b.) given the guy the money (or a gift certificate or a T-shirt or whatever) himself, out of the restaurant’s pocket. But to sic the guy on poor Jeff when he comes in on Thursday seems like bad form to me. Like several people have mentioned, Jeff has probably already spent the money; it’s been a very slow month and we’re all going a little broke, so I’m sure he’ll either have used it for expenses, or treated himself with it by then. Particularly since he’s off today. Oh, and I recalled something else Chris told me; apparently the money is the guy’s per diem from his company, which is why he wants it back. He gets $40 a day for general expenses like food, and he used all of it on Jeff. (I deal with a lot of business travelers, and many of them like to save their per diems as a way of making extra money, vs. spending them on expenses.) And yes, as **DanielWithrow** observed, even Chris told me that he was struck by the guy’s attitude, which is “I’ve been wronged and it should be put right!” vs. “Hey, I’m really sorry, I made a mistake, but I need that money back, if there’s any way you can help me out here.” The point is, Jeff honestly thought it was a genuine tip, and such tips are not unheard of, so Jeff has done nothing wrong. Particularly since the guy waited several hours before coming back to get “his” money. And now the customer is making it seem as though Jeff somehow conned him out of his money, and I don’t agree. The person who made the mistake here was the customer, not Jeff. And for the purposes of fair play, I think if management believes the guy has a point, they should be the ones to reimburse him, either with a free meal, or merchandise, or a couple of drinks on the house, or whatever. I don’t think they should make Jeff give it back…and as Chris said, they really don’t even have a way of doing so. But I guess I’ll find out tomorrow. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sat\_on\_Cookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Sat\_on\_Cookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sat_on_Cookie)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/54 "2003-10-22T22:14:18Z")
I agree with what everyone has said in support of Jeff. I think Mr. Per Diem sounds like a jackass. UNLESS (and this is the only scenario I could think of that would make his stalking poor Jeff for return of tip money make sense) he received really, really, REALLY horrible service and was positively **beside himself** at the thought of inadvertantly rewarding Jeff. I would still think he was in the wrong but it would make me understand his assholiness better. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/55 "2003-10-22T23:26:46Z")
Jeff should not give any money back – and if managment fails to back him up, he should quit on the spot. **Audrey** should quit too, and so should all the other staff. You can do better than work for spineless weasels. Yes, I know that won’t happen. Not IRL. But wouldn’t it be empowering? As for the customer, it’s really no different than if he dropped the $20 in the street. He can only surmise that Jeff has the money, he can’t prove it, nor can he reasonably force Jeff to give it back. IMHO, Jeff would certainly win in court. That said, I bet this escalates into a real dust-up. Jeff likely won’t have the money, and the customer could get really belligerant. I wouldn’t recommend any free drinks, as some have suggested. Alcohol doesn’t necessarly make one more reasonable or easygoing. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/56 "2003-10-22T23:28:50Z")
I agree that Mr. Lousy Tipper is a royal assbag. I also think he made an honest mistake with the extra twenty. If _I_ were the manager, here’s what I’d do. When Lousy Tipper comes back, rather than siccing him on the poor waiter, I’d intercept him. “We talked about it,” I’d say, “and we’re returning your money.” Then I’d give him eighteen dollars. “Where’s the rest?” Lousy Tipper will ask. “Well,” I’d say, “when we looked at the bill, it was obvious you undertipped him. We know you didn’t mean to do it on purpose—” (said with a straight face) “—so we corrected the amount. And there you go.” If he gives me flak, I’ll give him another dollar. “There. That leaves a fifteen percent tip.” And if he’s _still_ mad, I’ll look at him in disbelief, and say loudly: “You’re raising a fuss because you want to give your waiter a _ten percent_ tip?” The thing is, I’ll take responsibility for it. It’s part of being a good manager: protecting one’s employees from the assholes. Which this guy, it seems to me, obviously is. He did the quick handoff with the bill to conceal what he thought was a shitty tip. Now it’s biting him in the ass. Long story short, I don’t need his repeat business, and I don’t give a shit if he walks away mad. That’s what _I’d_ do. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/57 "2003-10-23T05:28:35Z")
Bravo, **Cervaise.** That’s pretty much what I think. Not to mention the fact that the customer in question is from out of town, on a convention, and is leaving this week…and probably won’t be back in San Antonio any time soon. So anybody who thinks we should “court his business” by covering this incident is foolish, b/c he wouldn’t ever be a repeat customer anyway. And while Mr. Jackass said he’d come back tomorrow night to “talk to Steven,” I think odds are pretty much even on whether he actually will or not. Hopefully he’ll realize he’s being a jackass, and decide that it’s a cheap way to learn how to better manage one’s money. But I will keep you all posted; I work tomorrow. And FTR, **Danalan,** I am in the interview process for another job; it’s not for this incident, precisely, but for other incidents just like it. I’m tired of going out on a limb and being stranded by shitty management; I’m a damn good employee, and a damn good bartender, and I think I deserve a little more respect than I’ve been getting. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/58 "2003-10-23T07:23:03Z")
Getting in here kind of late, but having read the pile-on on Mr. customer… I suspect said customer probably **is** missing his $20 as much as Jeff is enjoying them. Who knows, maybe even more. I know I wouldn’t try to get my $20 back in this situation unless I **really needed** them - I’d be too embarassed And the lousy (planned) tip may **well** have been planned as a comeuppance for services rendered. And I **still** think Mr. customer should have done the vocal equivalent of coming in on his knees and begging… or at least saying something like "You know, I realize it was my mistake, but the service really just wasn’t good, and I’m riled at having given that kind of tip to someone who didn’t deserve that knd of windfall…) Distribution of blame, in my book: Manager - 75% Customer - 20-25% (for being an asshole, not for trying to correct the mistake and get his money back) Jeff - maybe 5% (Should have realized this was probably a mistake, told Manger, asking him to hold $20 in case customer comes back, expecting to get it on next shift when customer didn’t). Maybe none (if service **was** good and this may really have been a gravy tip) **Audrey** , would this informal kind of “escrow” have worked in your environment? Or would Jeff likely have gotten screwed out of his $20 if he had followed the advice above? All in all, sounds like all three protagonists - Jeff, Chris and Mr. customer - are probably only marginal members of the triple-digit-IQ club ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/59 "2003-10-23T08:00:48Z")
I have to be honest with you, **Noone Special.** Any money that’s unmarked in the office safe is pretty much up for grabs; wallets without IDs have been turned in at plenty of places I’ve worked at, and it always seems that the customer “picks it up” within a week or so…but there are never, mysteriously, any details. IOW, if Jeff had turned the money in as you suggested, chances are great that whether the customer had come back for or it or not, Jeff never would have gotten his money back. That sounds horrible, but it’s true. Restaurant managers don’t make gravy money, either. ☹ And as far as the customer making a statement about the service he received…while you do have a point, I think that if he had that big a problem with it, he should’ve brought it up while he was there…and not come back three hours later to get back $20 he can’t even prove he lost. It sounds pretty lame. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880/60 "2003-10-23T08:14:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Audrey Levins \* > \*\*I have to be honest with you, **Noone Special.** Any money that’s unmarked in the office safe is pretty much up for grabs; wallets without IDs have been turned in at plenty of places I’ve worked at, and it always seems that the customer “picks it up” within a week or so…but there are never, mysteriously, any details. > > IOW, if Jeff had turned the money in as you suggested, chances are great that whether the customer had come back for or it or not, Jeff never would have gotten his money back. That sounds horrible, but it’s true. Restaurant managers don’t make gravy money, either. :(\*\* Yes, I was afraid that was what you would say ☹ Guess Mr. Manager, with his initial reaction, really created a lose-lose-lose situation (all three ways) > [@](#): > > \*\* > And as far as the customer making a statement about the service he received…while you do have a point, I think that if he had that big a problem with it, he should’ve brought it up while he was there…and not come back three hours later to get back $20 he can’t even prove he lost. It sounds pretty lame. \*\* Well, I thought my last statement in the previous post kind of summed up the situation… Remember - Half of the population is stupider than average 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-more-wrong-here/208880.md?page=4)