# Who's rule is this and whose responsible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2005, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941 "2005-09-16T08:04:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/21 "2005-09-16T13:31:38Z")
I let it slide till it goes into Leetspeak. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/22 "2005-09-16T13:32:52Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > And somehow, you still managed to get whooshed. Nope. I didn’t get whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/23 "2005-09-16T13:38:42Z")
Horton Hears Who’s? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/24 "2005-09-16T14:03:42Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Who cares, not me. > > I hyperbolically assert that it is not I who care, but Abbott and Costello’s humorously-named second baseman. Who’s on first. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/25 "2005-09-16T14:16:15Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Nope. I didn’t get whooshed. Oh, yes, you did. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/26 "2005-09-16T14:20:15Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Oh, yes, you did. Why do you think so? I know he was being intentionally stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/27 "2005-09-16T14:26:30Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I know he was being intentionally stupid. Which makes your little diatribe kinda pointless. If he was being _intentionally_ stupid, that means it was a joke; and if it was a joke, you can’t take it seriously. Unless you have a big ol’ stick up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/28 "2005-09-16T14:33:40Z")
I think that there \*is \* a larger problem of growing illiteracy, but message boards may not be the appropriate place to judge that. Many people here are trying to sneak in a few posts during work or in the middle of a hectic day, and sometimes mistakes creep in by people who truly know better. I can’t believe the number of times I use the wrong there/their/they’re and only catch it in the preview. And it’s easy to gloss over the preview in one’s haste to post a timely response. In general, I think that most Straight Doper’s are, like the children from Lake Wobegon, above average (whether I share their beliefs or not) so it may be worth cutting folks a bit of slack. ( **Airman Doors, USAF** , I’m not familiar with a previous thread on this, but someone disagreeing with you may not be denouncing you. I happen to share your despair over declining literacy, but I’m not going to call anyone stupid for disagreeing with me.) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/29 "2005-09-16T14:38:19Z")
Forget it **Marge** , you won’t effect there grammer. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/30 "2005-09-16T15:07:36Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > I think that there \*is \* a larger problem of growing illiteracy, but message boards may not be the appropriate place to judge that. Writing is the truest form of literacy. Barring typos it is indicative of your command of the language. > [@](#): > > Many people here are trying to sneak in a few posts during work or in the middle of a hectic day, and sometimes mistakes creep in by people who truly know better. True enough, but the same errors consistently appear, and are often made by the same people. > [@](#): > > In general, I think that most Straight Doper’s are, like the children from Lake Wobegon, above average (whether I share their beliefs or not) so it may be worth cutting folks a bit of slack. And we’ll start with you. The first portion of the quoted sentence is the equivalent of “In general, I think that most Straight Doper is are”. You made a possessive out of a plural, and that is Egregious Sin Number One. > [@](#): > > ( **Airman Doors, USAF** , I’m not familiar with a previous thread on this, but someone disagreeing with you may not be denouncing you. I happen to share your despair over declining literacy, but I’m not going to call anyone stupid for disagreeing with me.) The proper use of language is not a disagreement. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/31 "2005-09-16T15:09:55Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > The funny thing is that I see similar errors in print all the time. Even in books which ought to have better editing. One error I’m starting to see a lot is “I was pouring over an old book…” WTF? What do people think they are pouring? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/32 "2005-09-16T15:14:01Z")
> [@Dung Beetle](#): > > WTF? What do people think they are pouring? The midnite oil? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/33 "2005-09-16T15:17:35Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Why do you think so? I know he was being intentionally stupid. I’m a little confused by your post, then. It almost seems like you were saying “I know you were joking when you said ‘irregardless’, but sheesh, you are an idiot for using ‘irregardless.’” ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/34 "2005-09-16T15:24:24Z")
Now that I’m finished being an ass about this, let me explain why it bothers me so much. I am a Communications/Journalism student, and one of the requirements of my University is that everyone within the major must pass a literacy test. Before I dropped my schedule for the semester due to my upcoming deployment I took the pre-test, which was similar in content to the actual test. Out of 30 people in my class, I was one of four who passed it. Four! In a Communications major! That is utterly appalling. What’s worse, the syllabus that the teacher passed out to the class was riddled with errors. How can you expect a student to perform if you cannot be expected to have a proper grasp of what it is you are teaching? People are not learning how to write. People are not learning how to read. People are not learning how to effectively communicate. We are forced to divine meaning when the meaning should be clear. We have made a cottage industry out of language, with copy editors to cover up mistakes and lawyers to pore over documents to ensure that there are no substantive mistakes. If we were taught properly there would be no need for such measures. Yes, I am a grammar Nazi. If people are unable or unwilling to see that they made a mistake I make it a point to educate them. If that makes me an asshole, well, so be it. I expect people to do the same for me, because while I am not perfect I make every effort to improve my command of the language. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/35 "2005-09-16T15:24:27Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > The proper use of language is not a disagreement. In many cases, it is. There are many, many points on which even experts disagree. Case in point is the perennial “Another think coming” vs. “Anothing thing coming” debate. Clearly, there _is_ room for debate in the proper use of language. Language is not an absolute. It is constantly evolving. You may disagree, but I suspect Shakespeare and his contemporaries would find your usage of the language to be abhorrent. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/36 "2005-09-16T15:24:33Z")
Seeing these common mistakes here are worse then nails on a chalk board. I wish people would stop, than I wouldn’t have to cringe so much. (Gaaah! It actually made me cringe to type that.) [then](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=then) [than](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=than) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/37 "2005-09-16T15:37:47Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Yes, I am a grammar Nazi. If people are unable or unwilling to see that they made a mistake I make it a point to educate them. I appreciate the zeal with which you attempt to make the world a better place. However, in your enthusiastic state, you berated someone for spelling things wrong while deliberately ignoring the intent of the post. Let’s just say the ironing is deciduous. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/38 "2005-09-16T16:01:37Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And we’ll start with you. The first portion of the quoted sentence is the equivalent of “In general, I think that most Straight Doper is are”. You made a possessive out of a plural, and that is Egregious Sin Number One. I did, and it is. What can I say? I screwed up. It’s not one that I am unfamiliar with; I’ve read “Eats, Shoots and Leaves” as well, and I know how much it grates on the author. I think it proves my point as to posting quickly, you think it proves your point as to illiteracy. Perhaps we should agree to disagree. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > Oh, wait, we’ve had this argument before and I was widely denounced for saying that it was indicative of a larger literacy problem. So please, feel free to disregard what I’m saying. **You may all continue to make yourselves look stupid at your leisure**. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > And yes, I did note the sarcastic tone in your response (and all of the errors). Nonetheless, you were being ostentatious about it whereas most people get upset when they are corrected on the most basic errors. **If they’re happy being stupid, then I’ll continue to be happy calling them on it**. Bolding mine. Insults are hardly evidence of a logical rebuttal, especially as all those posting to this thread (in jest or not) share **Large Marge’s** distaste for grammatical errors. Egregious Debating Sin Number One. I think that you are carrying on a battle with those who share your beliefs. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/39 "2005-09-16T16:05:06Z")
Simple rule, folks: Possessive pronouns do not have apostrophes! Look, I admit that most possessives do. But just like “his”, “her”, “my”, and the oft-misused “its”, “whose” is apostrophe-free. Normally I’m all about defending usages that English teachers condemn. But there’s a difference between simply using casual speech, or speaking a native dialect that isn’t precisely the same as Standard English (as we all do) and just plain not knowing how to write. The distinctions between “its” and “it’s”, or “whose” and “who’s”, are matters of writing correctly, not prescriptive grammar. No one is a native speaker of a dialect that misspells “whose”. It’s nonsense to apply the arguments of grammatical description (“language always evolves”, “this rule is arbitrary”, and so forth) to writing, since writing _by its very nature as a learned behavior and not a natural one like speech_ is largely arbitrary. Using punctuation correctly, spelling words right, and so forth, are essentially outside the purview of descriptive grammar anyway, since linguistics concentrates almost exclusively on speech. I have to say that I think there must be far too little attention paid to this in high school composition classes, because this is a simple matter that should not be so puzzling to so many people. It irritates the hell out of me that many college students can’t apply basic rules of writing. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941/40 "2005-09-16T16:06:44Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Yes, I am a grammar Nazi. If people are unable or unwilling to see that they made a mistake I make it a point to educate them. If that makes me an asshole, well, so be it. I expect people to do the same for me, because while I am not perfect I make every effort to improve my command of the language. Okay, me first. You capitalized “University” and “Communications” and “Journalism” in your post, and you shouldnta oughtnta done that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-rule-is-this-and-whose-responsible/321941.md?page=3)