# Who's Still Standing or Fuck You Duke Haters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644 "2004-03-22T01:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/41 "2004-03-23T17:44:05Z")
A little message for my UK friends… \*\*All hail Christian Laettner! Bow down and kiss his mighty foot of DOOM! \*\* But enough history. As for this year, I have in my hot little hands two tickets to the Atlanta regionals, where I expect to see Duke crush the hopes and dreams of (in turn) Illinois and Texas. On to the Final Four! GO DUKE! ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/42 "2004-03-23T17:51:59Z")
Now that’s the spirit, **spoke-**! Go me! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blackdragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Blackdragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackdragon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/43 "2004-03-23T19:21:02Z")
Dear Duke Coaches/Players/Fans: Quit crying. Duke-bias my ass! When I heard Redick complain about who they were seeded against I almost vomited. Arizona? Seton Hall? Louisville? What the hell are you bitching about. Kentucky the No.1 of the No.1’s got seeded against red hot Washington and UAB. Mark my words UAB has a legitamate shot at winning it all. I watched Duke get all the calls and all the breaks for years. Just because you haven’t done shit over the last couple of seasons does that mean there is a bias. Coach K, you are the dirtiest coach in the history of college basketball. Questions. If you win this year will you keep the bias bullshit going? If you lose will you blame it on the seeding? And to the OP, there are 15 teams other than Duke still playing. All of them are capable of beating Duke. So what if Stanford is out or any of the other teams mentioned. It’s no great triumph to reach the sweet 16. You’re a 1 seed. Beat Illinois and then Texas/Xavier then you can talk about who’s still standing. ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/44 "2004-03-24T00:00:55Z")
> [@UncleBill](#): > > You are correct, **DX2** , it is easier being a fan. I have been on this particular bandwagon for the last 26 years (yes, even in 1995). My sister was a freshman at Duke in 1978 (in the Coach Foster days), and I met Gene Banks (“Tinkerbell”) at the campus busstop. He talked to me, a skinny, pimply-faced seventh grader, about his previous summer playing in Europe as he waited for his bus. I was a fan through Junior High, High School, through my four years at Duke (Engineering, '88), and every day since then. My wife has converted to the Cameron Faithful, and she should get to see her first live game this Friday at the Georgia Dome. > > Yeah, it IS easier. > > And Dickie V should burn in the deepest depths of Hell. Well, at least we agree about Dookie V. 😉 My dad went to dook and my mom went to UNC. I actually started off as much a dook fan as a UNC (State was our big rival then, and dook sucked throughout the 70s). Before I abandoned the Dark (blue) Side and saw The Light, I really liked dook, especially the '78 team with Tinkerbell, Dennard, Spanarkel, Gminski, Harrell. I grew up in St. Louis and went to the Checkerdome to see Goose light the Dookies up (and admittedly, dook got screwed on the technical foul call). I remember going to the hotel and seeing the team before the semis vs. Notre Dame - I remember meeting Jim Suddath and Scott Goetsch - really nice guys. In contrast, the dookies of today are evil, pure evil incarnate. Just remember, the worm always turns. Those of us with long memories know that dook went 18 straight years without winning at Carmichael. We know about 8 points in 17 seconds. Remember Tom Emma and Chip Engelland and Mike Tissaw? That’s the kind of talent dook will be recruiting after K’s rides into the sunset. Let’s see if you guys do any better replacing K than we did with Dean - history suggests you guys will suffer when the Evil One is gone. Anyway, UncleBill, that’s all I have left to console myself with after another season of unmet expectations from our boys. Shit. WTNY. Oh, and fuck dook, BTW. And their punk-ass dorky fans. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/45 "2004-03-24T00:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, and fuck **dook** , BTW. And their punk-ass dorky fans. 😉 A dook hater that knows how it’s really spelled! I despise dook…well…not the team, but their fans. That being said…I am an ACC fan. Go ACC! ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/46 "2004-03-24T18:13:32Z")
GTHC, my pasty blue friend, GTHC. Even I correct folks when they say Jason Williams’ comeback against MD was the best ever, that amazing series of events with Duke and UNC in the way back machine was better. I do hope McCant’s sticks around for four. Carolina needs some consistency. And I do not see how we could do WORSE that Gut or D’oh! after K goes away. Johnny Dawkins is better than both of them, and Snyder or Amaker are waiting out there, also. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/47 "2004-03-24T18:28:54Z")
UCLA fan here. I freely admit it hasn’t been our year the last few years. And it might not be next year, either, but after that, watch out. So with that in mind, all you Duke fans out there, I can say that y’all have a cute little program out there. Two whole NCAA titles. Nice. Nine more and you’ll have caught up to us. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/48 "2004-03-24T21:42:02Z")
UCLA? BAH! Wooden had it easy, back when there were, what, 8 teams in the NCAA tournament? Try it with 65, ya pansies. Not to mention that Wooden faced no scholarship limits and could hoard All-Americans like canned goods. Put Wooden in today’s environment, and watch K eat his lunch. (And Duke, for the record, has 3 titles. _And counting_. Give Coach K a little time…) There’s a nice article in the Chicago Sun-Times today on [Duke hatred](http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay231.html). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/49 "2004-03-24T21:51:17Z")
> [@GoHeels](#): > > Those of us with long memories…know about 8 points in 17 seconds. yeah, maybe, but at least Duke never [got shut out for an entire half](http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/2004/03/06/sports/8120698.htm?1c) in the big game: > [@](#): > > **February 24, 1979** > > Determined not to play against Duke’s zone defense, North Carolina coach Dean Smith elects to hold the ball on offense, resulting in a 7-0 Blue Devils lead at halftime. When the Tar Heels completely miss the basket with one of their few first-half shots, the Cameron crowd begins chanting, “Airball,” believed to be the birth of the cheer. Willing to play up-tempo in the second half, both teams score 40 points after the break. That’s Dean Smith and his cheesy “four corners” for you. They had to change NCAA rules and insert a shot clock just to force the big coward to make his teams come out and play. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/50 "2004-03-24T23:17:00Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > yeah, maybe, but at least Duke never [got shut out for an entire half](http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/2004/03/06/sports/8120698.htm?1c) in the big game: > > That’s Dean Smith and his cheesy “four corners” for you. They had to change NCAA rules and insert a shot clock just to force the big coward to make his teams come out and play. 😉 Well, granted, it wasn’t Dean’s finest moment (I remember Chickie Yonakor’s airball - the damn shot went about two feet over the rim). Nevertheless, Dean paid dook back next week when the Heels punked dook to win the ACC tourney. Remember Dudley Bradley on the cover of SI dunking over G’man? Career head-to-head: Dean 26, Ratface 14. 'Nuff said. 😉 Uncle Bill, we’re hoping Rashad sticks around at least one more year, too. We do have some serious recruits coming in (JR Smith, Marvin Williams, Quinton Thomas, not sure about Jameson Curry with his arrest, however. Just have to hope the fucking NBA doesn’t poach them). I do think we’re right up there in talent with you - but at this point, dook just has all the intangibles and know how to win. We’ll get there. And BTW, do you think Dawkins will go to G’town to get some head coaching experience? I think of all the coaches on K’s “family tree,” he’s best suited to take over when K leaves. After the recent fiasco at Mizzou, I don’t think you want Quin $nyder anywhere near Durham. Amaker hasn’t shown me much at Michigan. Brey is always a possibility, but somehow I think Dawkins has the right mix of youth, temperament, and high profile to take over. And I’d warn you not to be so blase about replacing a legend (as airblairxxx and neurotik - both UCLA fans - can attest). It ain’t as easy as it looks. Trust me on that one. The last six years have been a dark age for us Heels. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/51 "2004-03-25T00:11:24Z")
I kinda think Brey may take Georgetown, he has that whole Catholic School experience. Amaker took over a very sorry situation, and hasn’t turned it back into a (clean) powerhouse yet, but I’d give him another four years before giving up. He took Seton Hall to the Sweet Sixteen within four years, and they are still alive in the NIT right now in what, his third year there? Dawkins may just hang out and take over from the Assistant position, a la Gut, but with better coaching skills. But Krzyzewski is still a few years shy of 60, and may still be cussing out refs for another 10 or 15 years. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/52 "2004-03-25T01:34:56Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Wooden had it easy, back when there were, what, 8 teams in the NCAA tournament? Try it with 65, ya pansies. Please. Back then, there were only conference champions allowed in the tourney. Didn’t win the conference? Enjoy your off-season! Ask USC, who ended 1972 third-ranked in the nation and second in LA. Like I always said, it sucks to be a Trojan. Even with the tournament in this form, we still won seven titles in a row. It’s not just the titles that’s impressive, it’s getting to the tournament. Has Duke won the ACC seven times in a row? > [@](#): > > Not to mention that Wooden faced no scholarship limits and could hoard All-Americans like canned goods. So why couldn’t anyone else? > [@](#): > > Put Wooden in today’s environment, and watch K eat his lunch. 'Scuse me while I clean off my monitor. > [@](#): > > (And Duke, for the record, has 3 titles. _And counting_. Give Coach K a little time…) Well then, you’re only EIGHT titles behind us. How’s the view from there? ---
**Author:** ![Carcosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@Carcosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carcosa)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/53 "2004-03-25T01:52:15Z")
> [@Kid\_A](#): > > So in conlusion, fuck Kentucky, fuck North Carolina State. Oh yeah and a big fuck off to all you Terp and Tar Heels fans. Yeah, but you still have the ugliest cheerleaders in the ACC. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/54 "2004-03-25T02:32:41Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > UCLA? > > BAH! > > Wooden had it easy, back when there were, what, 8 teams in the NCAA tournament? Try it with 65, ya pansies. Not to mention that Wooden faced no scholarship limits and could hoard All-Americans like canned goods. Put Wooden in today’s environment, and watch K eat his lunch. (And Duke, for the record, has 3 titles. _And counting_. Give Coach K a little time…) > > There’s a nice article in the Chicago Sun-Times today on [Duke hatred](http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay231.html). Uh-huh. Of course, back then, Duke wouldn’t even be in the tournament this year. Much less a number one seed. As for Coach K eating Wooden’s lunch…how many years did it take for someone to beat the Wizard? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/55 "2004-03-25T05:19:45Z")
John Wooden could come out of retirement and coach a team the next few years and noone could touch him. I think he really could, that guy has not lost a step in his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/56 "2004-03-25T14:18:45Z")
> [@Carcosa](#): > > Yeah, but you still have the ugliest cheerleaders in the ACC. 😃 Touche. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/57 "2004-03-25T14:30:19Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > PleasEven with the tournament in this form, we still won seven titles in a row. It’s not just the titles that’s impressive, it’s getting to the tournament. Has Duke won the ACC seven times in a row? Going into this year, Duke had won 5 ACC titles in a row, before losing (barely) to Maryland this time out. And that’s in the ACC, not in the candy-ass PAC-8 of Wooden’s era. And that business about only conference champions going to the tourney is a double-edged sword. It means no dark horses. Duke might well have won the past 5 national titles playing under that system. > [@](#): > > So why couldn’t anyone else [hoard All Americans]? Duke could do that today IF the scholarship limits weren’t in place. But they are. Coach K is operating under strictures Wooden didn’t face. > [@](#): > > Well then, you’re only EIGHT titles behind us. How’s the view from there? Coach K is 57. That’s the same age at which Wooden won his THIRD title, and Coach K is going for his fourth. Like I said, give Coach K a little time. 😉 One other factor I forgot to mention is players leaving early, something else Wooden didn’t have to face. Imagine if Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Carlos Boozer and Jay Williams had played out their full eligibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/58 "2004-03-25T17:24:35Z")
I’ll see your “players leaving early” and call with “freshmen are ineligible.” Wooden managed to win titles during that era. Krzyzewski may have players leave early but so do a lot of other schools. And K has a heck of a lot more leftover talent to rely on than most schools. ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/59 "2004-03-25T18:21:08Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > One other factor I forgot to mention is players leaving early, something else Wooden didn’t have to face. Imagine if Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Carlos Boozer and Jay Williams had played out their full eligibilities. Yo, spoke-, I’ll grudgingly grant you every other point you made in your last post, but I can’t let this one go. Don’t even go there with the “imagine if so-and-so had stayed” game. For every one of your studs who left, I’ll counter. I think the guys who left Carolina would punk the guys who left dook; therefore, their losses hurt Carolina much more than dook. Elton Brand? (::snort:🙂 I’ll counter with James Worthy. Corey Maggette? (puhleeze). I’ll counter with Michael Jordan. Carlos Boozer? (::chuckle:🙂 I’ll counter with Bob McAdoo. Jay Williams? (::sneer:🙂 I’ll counter with Jerry Stackhouse. Mike Dunleavy? (::guffaw:🙂 I’ll counter with Rasheed Wallace. And hell, I’m not even mentioning fellows like Jeff McInnis, Vince Carter, Joe Forte, J.R. Reid - all of whom left early. And unfortunately, it’s looking more and more likely that our incoming stud, Marvin Williams, is being projected as a lottery pick. The “What-if-they-had-stayed” game? You dookies have no idea. We Tar Heels perfected this particular whine. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644/60 "2004-03-25T18:53:02Z")
**GoHeels** , you are listing players from different eras. The guys I’m talking about could have all been on the same team at Duke. And I will grant you that UNC has lost some great talent over the years. But that’s part of my point. Only an elite few schools regularly face this problem. Meanwhile a middling program with good (but not NBA-good) players can wind up with a solid, senior-laden team that can compete well with a Duke or UNC team that is talented but perennially youthful. This has the effect of leveling the playing field in a way that didn’t happen in Wooden’s era, and is one more reason why it’s harder to maintain a dynasty today than it was back then. And **Mullinator** , I don’t get your point with freshman eligibility. Wooden’s freshmen weren’t eligible, but neither were anybody else’s. I don’t see the disadvantage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-still-standing-or-fuck-you-duke-haters/235644.md?page=4)