# Who's the guy who went and named all the groups of animals?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 20, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120 "2015-11-20T23:07:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Cardboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardboard)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/1 "2015-11-20T23:07:03Z")
Who decided to call a group of rats a “mischief” and a group of crows a “murder,” for example?
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### Author:  [@walker9879](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/walker9879)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/2 "2015-11-20T23:18:30Z")
Thomas Jefferson
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### Author:  [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/3 "2015-11-20T23:57:50Z")
According to the head guru at [Wordorigins.org](http://www.wordorigins.org):
“Many of the “fun” names for groups of animals, including murder, got their start in a handful of Middle English glossaries. They do not appear in any extant primary sources (literature, diaries, books on hunting, etc.) and were probably never commonly used. Copied from dictionary to dictionary over the years, they never appear to be actually used until the 20th century, when they were revived somewhat as “fun facts about language” and managed the occasional actual use by a real person. Even then, their use is very rare.”
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### Author:  [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/4 "2015-11-20T23:59:31Z")
Perhaps you’re talking about James Lipton. he wrote a book in 1968 called An Exaltation of Larks. I haven’t read it but allegedly the second half contains “whimsical” terms, many of which Lipton made up himself.
Politifact refers to this book when discussing the urban legend which claims (falsely) that the term for a group of baboons is a _ **congress** _. The correct term is _ **troop** _. [PolitiFact | Chain e-mail claims that when baboons congregate, it's called a 'congress.'](http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2012/jan/02/chain-email/chain-e-mail-claims-when-baboons-congregate-its-ca/)
Here’s an excerpt from that page on Politifact, which includes an interview with Orin Hargraves, president of the Dictionary Society of North America.
> [@](#):
>
> The names for collections of animals are called “terms of venery,” and Hargraves said the best reference source for them is the 1968 book “An Exaltation of Larks” by James Lipton, host of “Inside the Actors Studio.”
>
> The first part of the book, which examines real terms, has no reference to baboons. Only in the section that includes whimsical terms that Lipton coined or uncovered is there any reference to the primates. “A rumpus of baboons” is listed right next to “a buffoonery of orangutans.” (One of our favorites: “a prickle of porcupines.”)
>
> Hargraves could find no evidence that congress is the correct term. “Apparently someone just made it up,” he said. “It has the ring of truthiness and so people like it. They do behave like the caricature of the baboons, but I think real baboons probably behave a lot better.”
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### Author:  [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/5 "2015-11-21T13:06:01Z")
Haven’t I read somewhere about inventing collective nouns being a sort of Victorian parlor game? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-364383.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-364383.html)
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/6 "2015-11-21T18:20:01Z")
Some are not as stupid as they look. I saw a couple in the attached link, that to American eyes may look odd, but are (or were) in common use over here.
Two that come to mind are:
A bundle of faggots (Faggots are sticks for the fire, and a bundle would be fine)
A bench of magistrates. (They apparently used to sit on an actual bench)
No one has adequately explained why, for example, sheep come in flocks, while cows come in herds.
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/7 "2015-11-21T21:17:47Z")
> [@Cardboard](#):
>
> Who decided to call a group of rats a “mischief” and a group of crows a “murder,” for example?
A flock of crows is a “murder” if they are perched on a tree or flying straight; however, it is called a “kettle” if it is circling, for obvious reasons, and “kettle” can apply to any group of birds that are circling.
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### Author:  [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/8 "2015-11-21T21:42:56Z")
[Attempted murder.](http://www.google.com/search?site=webhp&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=yuRQVtPJDMrYmwHT97bYAg&q=attempted+murder+crows&oq=attempted+murder+&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.3784.12025.0.14097.15.15.0.4.4.0.482.3417.0j7j7j0j1.15.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.15.2634.3.WXO3uQfrHHY)
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/9 "2015-11-21T22:04:35Z")
> [@sbunny8](#):
>
> Perhaps you’re talking about James Lipton. he wrote a book in 1968 called An Exaltation of Larks. I haven’t read it but allegedly the second half contains “whimsical” terms, many of which Lipton made up himself.
I don’t think he made them up, but he searched through old accounts and picked up anything he found, even if it was only used once and never again.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/10 "2015-11-21T22:16:42Z")
[Linnaeus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Linnaeus) is not the answer you are looking for.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/11 "2015-11-21T22:19:00Z")
> [@barbitu8](#):
>
> A flock of crows is a “murder” if they are perched on a tree or flying straight; however, it is called a “kettle” if it is circling, for obvious reasons, and “kettle” can apply to any group of birds that are circling.
The term kettle is mostly used for soaring hawks and vultures, and is modern, apparently first being used in this sense in print in 1970. It probably derives from a feature near Hawk Mountain, Pennsylvania, the Kettle, over which flocks of hawks often were seen circling.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/12 "2015-11-21T22:23:08Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#):
>
> "Many of the “fun” names for groups of animals, including murder, got their start in a handful of Middle English glossaries.
One of the key sources is the [Book of St. Albans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Saint_Albans) (1486).
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/13 "2015-11-21T22:28:48Z")
Has anyone done Mesozoic dinosaurs yet? I call it!
A conundrum of Edmontosaurs.
A filligeum of Oviraptors.
A hasselbeck of Ceratosaurs.
I’ll be back in a while.
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/14 "2015-11-22T02:32:19Z")
sbunny8 writes:
\> Perhaps you’re talking about James Lipton. he wrote a book in 1968 called An
\> Exaltation of Larks.
Incidentally, that’s the same James Lipton who hosts _Inside the Actors Studio_.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/15 "2015-11-22T05:46:04Z")
Three Oxford dons were walking down the High street when they caught sight of three ladies of negotiable affections plying their trade. As they had, in their perambulations, been debating the finer points of collective nouns, they naturally decided to attempt to impress one another with their skills.
“What ho!” exclaimed the youngest. “A trey of tarts!”
“Rubbish, old fellow,” responded the next elder of the trio. “That is clearly a fanfare of strumpets.”
The eldest of the academics calmly shook his head. “Sorry, chaps” said he. “An anthology of English pros.”
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2015, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/16 "2015-11-22T08:21:19Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> sbunny8 writes:
>
> \> Perhaps you’re talking about James Lipton. he wrote a book in 1968 called An
> \> Exaltation of Larks.
>
> Incidentally, that’s the same James Lipton who hosts _Inside the Actors Studio_.
Thanks–I was wondering that.
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### Author:  [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/17 "2015-11-22T11:19:21Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Three Oxford dons were walking down the High street when they caught sight of three ladies of negotiable affections plying their trade. As they had, in their perambulations, been debating the finer points of collective nouns, they naturally decided to attempt to impress one another with their skills.
>
> “What ho!” exclaimed the youngest. “A trey of tarts!”
>
> “Rubbish, old fellow,” responded the next elder of the trio. “That is clearly a fanfare of strumpets.”
>
> The eldest of the academics calmly shook his head. “Sorry, chaps” said he. “An anthology of English pros.”
I’ve also heard, in that tale, the suggestion: “A chapter of Trollope’s”.
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### Author:  [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/18 "2015-11-22T17:16:02Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> sbunny8 writes:
>
> \> Perhaps you’re talking about James Lipton. he wrote a book in 1968 called An
> \> Exaltation of Larks.
>
> Incidentally, that’s the same James Lipton who hosts _Inside the Actors Studio_.
Yes, I know. That fact was inside the excerpt which I quoted in post #4.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/19 "2015-11-22T18:22:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Three Oxford dons were walking down the High street when they caught sight of three ladies of negotiable affections plying their trade. As they had, in their perambulations, been debating the finer points of collective nouns, they naturally decided to attempt to impress one another with their skills.
>
> “What ho!” exclaimed the youngest. “A trey of tarts!”
>
> “Rubbish, old fellow,” responded the next elder of the trio. “That is clearly a fanfare of strumpets.”
>
> The eldest of the academics calmly shook his head. “Sorry, chaps” said he. “An anthology of English pros.”
Now I know where Gary Gygax got his ideas for the ladies of the night random city encounter, where you had to roll to see if the person was a Haughty Courtesan or Brazen Strumpet.
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### Author:  [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120/20 "2015-11-23T09:21:31Z")
In Australia, we use the word ‘mob’ for everything. Saves thinking.
A mob of sheep, mob of roos, mob of galahs, mob of kids, etc.
My family sometimes play with the ‘official’ terms for groups of animals by using them inappropriately - ‘Look, there’s a Leap of sparrows, and over there an Parliament of flies’.
On the same vein, why do names for baby animals vary unnecessarily? Example why do bears, wolves and lions have cubs, but not deer, other dogs or birds? Why are baby goats kids, but baby sheep lambs? Why do small cats have kittens, but big cats don’t (rabbits have kittens, too).
I think most of those - particularly the ‘clever’ ones - were also made up as a bit of a laugh.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-guy-who-went-and-named-all-the-groups-of-animals/738120.md?page=2)