# Who's the most Evil Disney villain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 17, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576 "2019-11-17T14:57:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/61 "2019-11-18T22:25:37Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Um. _Song of the South_? The NAACP repeatedly tried to get him to not do such a racist movie and he refused. Plus scenes in other movies that the black centaurs serving the white centaurs, stuff in _Dumbo_. Etc. > > He deliberately underpaid his female animators less that his male ones since they were merely women… > > … Song of the South is not racist. There are no slaves in it. Read “Who’s afraid of Song of the South” [https://www.amazon.com/Afraid-South-Forbidden-Disney-Stories-ebook/dp/B00AG6G250](https://www.amazon.com/Afraid-South-Forbidden-Disney-Stories-ebook/dp/B00AG6G250) You think Walt inked that scene in himself? yeah, today it is very not politically correct, but back then, it would be fully. They got paid according to experience, and that was industry standard, in fact Walt paid more than others. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/62 "2019-11-18T22:27:55Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > Add Gaston to my list. He had no redeeming value and was another straight-up evil (I’d say incel, but I suspect quite a few of the village girls would be happy to sleep with him–he just wanted the one he couldn’t have). In fact it is suggested they did. But he’s just a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/63 "2019-11-18T22:33:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Song of the South is not racist. There are no slaves in it. Are you setting the standard for racism at slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/64 "2019-11-18T22:41:00Z")
Well, America solved racism forever in the 1860s, don’t’cha know? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/65 "2019-11-18T23:54:10Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > Add Gaston to my list. He had no redeeming value and was another straight-up evil (I’d say incel, but I suspect quite a few of the village girls would be happy to sleep with him–he just wanted the one he couldn’t have). Gaston is one of Disney’s best villains, but I wouldn’t call him evil. He’s just full of himself. He’s not doing anything bad – he wants to rescue Belle because he thinks that they were made for each other. But his pursuit of her shows he wants to change her mind, not force her to do what she wants. He’s deluded, but does respect Belle enough to try to convince her by his actions and words and, though he doesn’t give up, he accepts her “no” – for now. Annoying to her, certainly, but not evil. He’s a great villain because he thinks he’s the hero. From his point of view, he’s going after a terrible monster who, let’s face it, forces Belle to come to his castle. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/66 "2019-11-19T00:00:37Z")
Bambi’s mom would essentially beat the shit out of Bambi and drive him off when he’s old enough. This will help avoid the inevitable incest if they had the same territory. Also assuming Man is not poaching and it is legal season, Bambi is old enough to survive on his own. Fawn mortality is extremely high early on but by that time he’s essentially an adult. Bambi’s mom was a delicious villain. And Bambi and Faline’s romance will be the “hit it and quit it” type. But she will breed with many other males that season. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/67 "2019-11-19T00:10:35Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > All this talk of Gaston, while I don’t disagree that he was a villain, I can’t help but feel it overlooks the real villain of the story: the sorceress (or whatever) who cast a spell on the Beast. Not just the Beast, but all his servants, as if they were mere chattel, and should suffer with their master for all eternity if he couldn’t guilt-trip someone into loving him before the petals fell from the magic flower. > > What an awful, awful witch. She didn’t kill anyone, so she’s definitely not at the top of my list, but she’s way worse than Gaston in my mind for her literal objectification of the Beast’s servants. One of them was just a child, for Christ’s sake! And this happened, what, ten years before the movie really gets underway, right? And he has to get the curse lifted by his twenty-first birthday? Which means they all spent that decade paying a horrible price for — an eleven-year-old saying a stranger couldn’t spend the night at his place? (No, wait; _ten?_ Was he only ten?) ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/68 "2019-11-19T00:55:45Z")
They gave the Beauty & the Beast witch a name and a backstory in the live action version. She’s Agathe. [What's Up With Agathe In 'Beauty And The Beast'? She's A Complicated Character, To Say The Least](https://www.bustle.com/p/whats-up-with-agathe-in-beauty-the-beast-shes-a-complicated-character-to-say-the-least-43968) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/69 "2019-11-19T01:25:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you setting the standard for racism at slavery? what the fuck are you talking about? 😕 The NAACP, before they saw the film, and also now many others, objected to the film because it 'showed happy slaves", that’s the reason SotS is called 'racist". Of course that was 100% due to ignorance, the film was set well after the Civil War. I assumed your average person would know that. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/70 "2019-11-19T02:10:44Z")
[Technically speaking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Miramax_films#1990s), the bad guys from _The Crow_. (But another vote for the Horned King. The man had _style_.) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/71 "2019-11-19T03:16:29Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > [Technically speaking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Miramax_films#1990s), the bad guys from _The Crow_. > > (But another vote for the Horned King. The man had _style_.) If we’re counting Miramax, then I vote Harvey Weinstein as the real villain. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/72 "2019-11-19T03:40:07Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Bambi’s mom was a delicious villain. See? **thelurkinghorror** gets it! > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And this happened, what, ten years before the movie really gets underway, right? And he has to get the curse lifted by his twenty-first birthday? Which means they all spent that decade paying a horrible price for — an eleven-year-old saying a stranger couldn’t spend the night at his place? (No, wait; _ten?_ Was he only ten?) Holy crap! :eek: I didn’t even realize that, but I just watched the opening curse clip from the animated version, and you’re right. It explicitly states that the magical flower would flourish until his twenty-first year. So some crazy enchantress showed up to the home of an unaccompanied minor, demanded entry, and when denied she cursed him, and all the attendant employees, possibly for all time. That’s some god awful villainy if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/73 "2019-11-19T03:48:44Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > If we’re counting Miramax … if we’re counting Miramax - Pinhead for the win. (quote shortened by me - I assume we’re talking fictional villains here, the above sidetrack about Walt notwithstanding) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/74 "2019-11-19T04:45:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what the fuck are you talking about? 😕 > > The NAACP, before they saw the film, and also now many others, objected to the film because it 'showed happy slaves", that’s the reason SotS is called 'racist". Of course that was 100% due to ignorance, the film was set well after the Civil War. > > I assumed your average person would know that. It was set after the Civil War, yes. But the Uncle Remus character is still an ex-slave who stuck with his master, and the film does paint that relationship as rosy and happy. Uncle Remus and all the other black people in the film still live in a slave’s quarters on the property and are still clearly subservient to the white people–and they are happy with that. The NAACP did not comment before seeing the film. The guy who wrote the official response had not personally seen the film, but he was only echoing the reports from other members who had. And it wasn’t just the NAACP that thought the film was set in the antebellum South–that was the opinion of most reviewers of the time, because the film itself did not clarify when it is set–lines doing so were removed from the film. That said, the problems remain even knowing that Uncle Remus isn’t a slave, because there is no way that the character depicted went through the horribleness of slavery. He tries to run away because Johnny isn’t allowed to talk to him. His life with them must’ve been pretty cushy if something that small was reason enough to want to leave. The NAACP also did not completely decry the film–they also said the film had extensive artistic merit. That’s the sort of comment that would make it no different than, say, Gone With the Wind. Finally–and probably most importantly to your claim–that isn’t the only objection to the film. There are also objections to racist stereotypes. The glorification of slavery wasn’t their only point. Here’s [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South), with a lot more information. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/75 "2019-11-19T05:07:27Z")
The Headless Horseman. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/76 "2019-11-19T05:57:50Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It was set after the Civil War, yes. But the Uncle Remus character is still an ex-slave who stuck with his master, and the film does paint that relationship as rosy and happy. Uncle Remus and all the other black people in the film still live in a slave’s quarters on the property and are still clearly subservient to the white people–and they are happy with that. > > The NAACP did not comment before seeing the film. The guy who wrote the official response had not personally seen the film, but he was only echoing the reports from other members who had. And it wasn’t just the NAACP that thought the film was set in the antebellum South–that was the opinion of most reviewers of the time, because the film itself did not clarify when it is set–lines doing so were removed from the film. > > That said, the problems remain even knowing that Uncle Remus isn’t a slave, because there is no way that the character depicted went through the horribleness of slavery. He tries to run away because Johnny isn’t allowed to talk to him. His life with them must’ve been pretty cushy if something that small was reason enough to want to leave. > > The NAACP also did not completely decry the film–they also said the film had extensive artistic merit. That’s the sort of comment that would make it no different than, say, Gone With the Wind. > > Finally–and probably most importantly to your claim–that isn’t the only objection to the film. There are also objections to racist stereotypes. The glorification of slavery wasn’t their only point. > > Here’s [the Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South), with a lot more information. Your first two ideas are false. And here is part of what the NAACP released “…the production helps to perpetuate a dangerously glorified picture of slavery. …” becuase they thought Uncle Remus etc were slaves. He wrote that based on ignorance and the NAACP has since withdrawn that statement, if you read “Who is afraid of Song of the South” . You are basing your opinion on a Wikipedia page. :rolleyes:I am basing mine on the definitive BOOK written about the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/77 "2019-11-19T08:44:36Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Yzma taking a shot at the big chair was, frankly, not a villain’s action. An argument could be made that she was attempting a coup that might have resulted in the betterment of all in the kingdom. She didn’t seem to rule for evil, she just wanted competence - herself over bad Kuzco - in the decision-making position. You could say the same about Jafar, couldn’t you? IIRC, Jasmin’s dad was fairly useless. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/78 "2019-11-19T21:38:19Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > In your considered opinion, that is. > > At the bottom of the list I’d put Cinderella’s stepmother (who’s really only cruel to one person) and Sher Khan from The Jungle Book (who’s desire for Mowgli’s death is arguably self-defense). Captain Hook is too comical. > > Cruella de Vil is much more Evil, killing puppy dogs to make a coat. > > Frollo from _Hunchback of Notre Dame_ deserves special mention. > > Hades from _Hercules_ is a consideration (or maybe he’s just out for revenge). > > and then there’s Cernobog from _Fantasia_ who spends his free time playing and tormenting the souls of the damned. > > Who do YOU think? Cruella de Vil Cruella de Vil If she doesn’t scare you No evil thing will To see her is to take a sudden chill Cruella Cruella de Vil ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/79 "2019-11-20T03:39:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You could say the same about Jafar, couldn’t you? IIRC, Jasmin’s dad was fairly useless. Tough to say, really. We only see him after Jafar is clearly influencing him with the Snake Staff of Doom. The two times we see him actively having agency the first time he’s wondering about Jasmine and Jafar hexes him and at the end he shakes it off and declares that she can marry the kid with the pants. So the jury has to be out on the Sultan. Sure, he ain’t exactly Sweden in terms of enlightenment, but we don’t know he’s actively incompetent or dangerous. Kuzco, on the other hand, is actively neglectful and disdainful of his subjects to the point of making them homeless and even having one toss off a building simply for interrupting his dance. Prior to his enlightenment, Kuzco is, simply, a self-absorbed dick. ---
**Author:** ![edspellman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@edspellman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edspellman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576/80 "2019-11-20T04:04:50Z")
3 categories of Disney villainy: 1.) Extreme Cruelty/Sadism : Cruella de Vil, Mother Gothel, probably Frollo. 2.) Actual murder: Scar (fratricide!). Also Syndrome has his robot kill multiple supers. 3.) Uses black magic/implies allied with dark forces: the Evil Queen, and Malificent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-most-evil-disney-villain/843576.md?page=5)