# Who's the Worse Offender - Driving **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034 "2013-01-13T04:36:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/61 "2013-01-15T20:18:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > The person going slow in the fast lane is 100% at fault in my books. It’s a four lane highway. When someone is approaching you from behind in the _passing_ lane, move the fuck over. I don’t care what speed you’re traveling at; move the fuck over. > > The only possible exception to this is if both lanes are completely clogged and you’re in the fast lane keeping up with the line of traffic ahead of you, meaning the tailgater has no where to go even if you move over. > > If I want to drive 10 KPH faster than you, on a clear 4 lane highway and you’re blocking me in the fast lane it’s your fault. Move the fuck over you inconsiderate and unaware jerk. Those\* are\* the rules, actually. > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Just go around them on the right. Jesus. Do you really drive 5 feet behind another car, steaming with rage, when there are multiple clear lanes for you to pass in? No, you shouldn’t _have_ to, because the person in the fast lane should get out of your way. But if they don’t, just… go around. You’ll save yourself an ulcer. > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > What do you mean, it’s wrong? You just said exactly what I said, except that I added the common-sense suggestion that if you have multiple clear lanes to the right and someone refuses to move over, you should quit playing junior traffic cop and just go around them. And even if you choose not to do this, you should not follow them at 5 feet of distance in a haze of road rage. Because of what **Leaffan** said (top) with your reply (middle) is wrong. Simply put, _drivers in the left lane should move to the right._ There are two links on this page that spell it out, did you read them? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/62 "2013-01-15T20:24:09Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Because of what **Leaffan** said (top) with your reply (middle) is wrong. > > Simply put, _drivers in the left lane should move to the right._ There are two links on this page that spell it out, did you read them? Did you read my responses where I agreed? I am now agreeing with you for the third time. Drivers in the left lane should move to the right. I totally agree with this! I am on board with this statement! I agree with it so much that I just got elected Mayor of Agreementville! 😛 However, when faced with someone who clearly does not agree with the two of us and is driving slowly in the left lane, I think that there are three possible solutions, two of which are acceptable and one of which is not: Acceptable: 1. Continue to follow the slow driver in the left lane at a safe distance. 2. Pass on the right. Not acceptable: 1. Rage-tailgate the slow driver at an unsafe distance. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/63 "2013-01-15T20:28:24Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Did you read my responses where I agreed? I am now agreeing with you for the third time. Drivers in the left lane should move to the right. I totally agree with this! I am on board with this statement! I agree with it so much that I just got elected Mayor of Agreementville! 😛 > > However, when faced with someone who clearly does not agree with the two of us and is driving slowly in the left lane, I think that there are three possible solutions, two of which are acceptable and one of which is not: > > Acceptable: > > 1. Continue to follow the slow driver in the left lane at a safe distance. > 2. Pass on the right. > > Not acceptable: > > 1. Rage-tailgate the slow driver at an unsafe distance. Concur 100% from Agreementville 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/64 "2013-01-15T20:30:33Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > Second, and this is more of a SWAG but I suspect it is true because I see it so often and wonder WHY? - such tailgaters find comfort in following another - it’s almost like they “turn off their brain” so they’re no longer responsible for looking for road hazards. The car in front will do that for them. Hmf. I tend to want to be by myself, lets me relax and not worry about anyone around me doing any bonehead moves. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/65 "2013-01-15T20:32:00Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Did you read my responses where I agreed? I am now agreeing with you for the third time. Drivers in the left lane should move to the right. I totally agree with this! I am on board with this statement! **I agree with it so much that I just got elected Mayor of Agreementville**! 😛 > > However, when faced with someone who clearly does not agree with the two of us and is driving slowly in the left lane, I think that there are three possible solutions, two of which are acceptable and one of which is not: > > Acceptable: > > 1. Continue to follow the slow driver in the left lane at a safe distance. > 2. Pass on the right. > > Not acceptable: > > 1. Rage-tailgate the slow driver at an unsafe distance. Bolding mine and I LOL’d. 😃 And I concur. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/66 "2013-01-15T20:41:58Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > Second, and this is more of a SWAG but I suspect it is true because I see it so often and wonder WHY? - such tailgaters find comfort in following another - it’s almost like they “turn off their brain” so they’re no longer responsible for looking for road hazards. The car in front will do that for them. I’ve observed this more often when the driver is conversing with a passenger or is on the phone (handless or otherwise), so they can concentrate more on the conversation topic. In the late 1980’s I drove a semi over the road for three years. Especially on long stretches of highway late at night (thing Nebraska, Texas, Montana) I’d get a little gaggle of drivers behind me. Just for fun, I’d change lanes, then change back, just to see them all obediently follow me from lane to lane. It was cute. But not safe, especially when you get the yahoos who think that “drafting” a semi (driving about two inches from the bumper at 65-70 mph) was going to give them amazing fuel savings. That’s really, really annoying, and in a semi you can’t actually see the cling-ons; you just know they are there. Hitting the trailer brakes abruptly usually scooted them out of the way. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/67 "2013-01-15T20:51:05Z")
> [@foopyx](#): > > So, are people aware of what FTP is? Are any of you insulted when someone flashes you? It is not common practice here (to the point where I guess I would say I was not aware that it is a thing) and I take it as aggressive and an insult. The only time I can remember it, it was a Masshole doing it. The road just isn’t that busy here, and hardly anyone sits in the passing lane, so there’s no reason for something like that. The worst on recent memory was someone passing me (in a 35 mph little town street) on the right shoulder! Really? Where are you hurrying off to? I assumed it was a medical emergency since the hospital is in that direction, but no, they drove on at a reasonable speed. 😕 For the record, I put cruise control on at the speed limit, and stay in the traveling lane whenever possible. I don’t tailgate and I only go slower when there is winter weather. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/68 "2013-01-15T21:01:18Z")
Sorry, I forgot to mention the most lanes we have are two. If we are both in the fast lane and I have pulled out from behind a slower car, chances are quite good that I will be pulling back over when it’s safe. Would you normally give someone a chance to move back over before flashing-to-pass? ---
**Author:** ![toyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@toyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toyo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/69 "2013-01-15T21:01:52Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > If there are four lanes, only three cars on the road and someone is tailgating, that person needs to be pulled from their car and beaten with sticks. Then be forced to watch while their car is crushed into a cube and deposited on the side of the road. Then told they have one hour to remove their cube. > > Oblivious driving is problematic, but not so much when there’s no one on the roads. Being that close to one of the only other cars on the road with TWO open lanes with which to pass them is criminally stupid. As been stated before, passing on the right is more dangerous and illegal in several states. Besides, if that oblivious driver moved over for the tailgating driver, that car and cars that will pass in the future can do so more safely as opposed to every passing car having to drive around. Slowing down for tailgaters isn’t advised. That not only increases the chances of a confrontation, but if there is a collision, the car in front may easily spin out. It doesn’t matter if a driver is going faster than the speed limit, if there is another car behind you who is or wants to go faster, it’s the responsibility of the driver in front to move to the right when it’s safe to do so. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/70 "2013-01-15T21:09:59Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Sorry, I forgot to mention the most lanes we have are two. If we are both in the fast lane and I have pulled out from behind a slower car, chances are quite good that I will be pulling back over when it’s safe. Would you normally give someone a chance to move back over before flashing-to-pass? Absolutely, I would anyway. To me, “flash to pass” is not an aggressive signal. It’s the equivelant of tapping someone in line in front of you at the bank and saying “you’re next” if they’re spacing out and didn’t notice they were up. More of a friendly heads-up. Although it’s not often taken that way. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/71 "2013-01-15T21:11:26Z")
> [@toyo](#): > > As been stated before, passing on the right is more dangerous and illegal in several states. Besides, if that oblivious driver moved over for the tailgating driver, that car and cars that will pass in the future can do so more safely as opposed to every passing car having to drive around. > > Slowing down for tailgaters isn’t advised. That not only increases the chances of a confrontation, but if there is a collision, the car in front may easily spin out. > > It doesn’t matter if a driver is going faster than the speed limit, if there is another car behind you who is or wants to go faster, it’s the responsibility of the driver in front to move to the right when it’s safe to do so. Yes, slowing down for tailgaters instead of simply moving over is no less aggressive than tailgating. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/72 "2013-01-15T21:15:25Z")
FTP can be aggressive and rude, or it can be just communication. No problem with the latter (accustomed to driving around trucks, I do the blinks for “go ahead” and “thank you,” as mentioned upthread). If the flasher/would-be-passer is tailgating, they’re already a complete asshole; flashing just reinforces the point. I’ve been blinked at a time or two by people who didn’t realize or didn’t care that I was _already in the act of passing_ myself. If I’m already going faster than the posted speed, and faster than the vehicle just ahead on the right, I’m certainly not going to move over and brake hard just to spare your easing off the gas for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/73 "2013-01-15T21:20:36Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > I see this quite often. People tailgate when there’s plenty of room to go around. > > It’s a behavioral phenomenon described by a couple of factors. First, people are social creatures and tend to find comfort when around another. That’s why on rural interstates you’ll see cars “platooning”, or being in groups. The statistical distribution of cars on the road is not uniform; they come in clumps or groups. In my statistics and mathematical modeling classes it was called platoons or platooning. (My undergrad degree is in applied mathematics, but that’s not what I do for work and it has been 20 years so my memory might be a little hazy.) The distributions of many things that you’d think would be uniform tend not to be. This is often explained by a stochastic process known as an _arrival process_. The name is taken from the distribution of the times that guests arrive at a party; there’s going to be clumping even when the guests arrive one to a car, and none of them know each other. Or so says the mathematics. (I’m recalling what I learned in a course I took in the fall of 1984, so I’m vague on the math itself at this remove, but that was the gist of it.) So when you’ve got actual circumstances that promote clumping, you’re gonna get even more of it. FWIW, most of the clumping I see on highways urban and rural is the result of bozos in the left lane who will either not pass, or do so so slowly that traffic builds up behind them. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen when there’s room to pass, but most clumping I see is because there is no available lane to get by in. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/74 "2013-01-16T00:16:32Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Hmf. I tend to want to be by myself, lets me relax and not worry about anyone around me doing any bonehead moves. I’m with you, dude. I get away from other cars as much as possible. When I’m driving my car and when I’m riding my motorcycle. (BTW, what is “Hmf”?) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/75 "2013-01-16T00:22:13Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Yes, slowing down for tailgaters instead of simply moving over is no less aggressive than tailgating. I couldn’t disagree more. I teach MSF classes (Motorcycle Safety) and we teach to slow down - it is part of the officially-approved, nationwide curriculum. It is the safest thing to do because it increases your reaction time should you need to stop quickly. Increasing your reaction time also allows you to stop more calmly (less abruptly), thereby taking care of not only you, but the tailgater behind you because he has more time to slow and stop. I recommend any driver being tailgated to slow down. It has the added benefit of encouraging the tailgater to pass you or to back off. If he backs off, then you can resume your speed and he will (should) get the message. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/76 "2013-01-16T00:30:50Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Hitting the trailer brakes abruptly usually scooted them (tailgaters) out of the way. 🆒 Sometimes people just don’t get the message. When I’m on a motorcycle I’d rather not brake abruptly, for obvious reasons. I’ve done something that I’ve never seen other motorcyclists do and I think more should. My bike has a center stand (not all do). If I’m tailgated, I slow down for safety as I have described in this thread. Sometimes if the tailgater stays close, I push my center stand down with my foot and onto the pavement. This causes a shower of sparks that approaches the tailgating car - the sparks are especially impressive at night! Thankfully I’ve only needed to do this a few times. Note that doing this with the side stand may cut off the ignition (because of the safety cut-off switch). Not a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/77 "2013-01-16T00:45:22Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > I couldn’t disagree more. I teach MSF classes (Motorcycle Safety) and we teach to slow down - it is part of the officially-approved, nationwide curriculum. It is the safest thing to do because it increases your reaction time should you need to stop quickly. Increasing your reaction time also allows you to stop more calmly (less abruptly), thereby taking care of not only you, but the tailgater behind you because he has more time to slow and stop. > > I recommend any driver being tailgated to slow down. > > It has the added benefit of encouraging the tailgater to pass you or to back off. If he backs off, then you can resume your speed and he will (should) get the message. Apart from riding dirt bikes I don’t have much experience with motorcycles on freeways. But I cannot imagine slowing down while in the left/fast lane, instead of signaling, then moving over safely to yield, would be a less dangerous and passive-aggressive move, no matter what you are driving. Do you have a cite for this being an officially-approved, nationwide, legal and safe idea? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/78 "2013-01-16T01:09:44Z")
I might have mixed up different situations: If you’re in the right lane and are being tailgated, that’s when it’s safer to slow down. If it’s a 1-lane road with nowhere to pass, it’s still safer to slow down. If on a multi-lane road and you’re in the left-most lane and are being tailgated while you are passing someone, continue passing, do not slow down, and merge to the right after passing and when it is safe. If you’re not in the right-most lane, you could still slow down, depending on circumstances. Sorry if I contributed to confusion there. With that clarification, do you still need the cite? It’s in the class manual, not with me. I could look it up if still needed. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/79 "2013-01-16T01:19:42Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > I might have mixed up different situations: > > If you’re in the right lane and are being tailgated, that’s when it’s safer to slow down. If it’s a 1-lane road with nowhere to pass, it’s still safer to slow down. > > If on a multi-lane road and you’re in the left-most lane and are being tailgated while you are passing someone, continue passing, do not slow down, and merge to the right after passing and when it is safe. If you’re not in the right-most lane, you could still slow down, depending on circumstances. > > Sorry if I contributed to confusion there. With that clarification, do you still need the cite? It’s in the class manual, not with me. I could look it up if still needed. Well a cite to your claim that it’s universally safer and more legal to slow down while in the left\passing lane of a multi-lane highway (unless I misunderstood that, was the issue here) would be interesting, yes. Since that runs counter to everything I have ever read or experienced as a professional driver. The OP and all subsequent posts were talking about being in the LEFT lane, hellloooo. > [@](#): > > If you’re in the right lane and are being tailgated, that’s when it’s safer to slow down. Who, anywhere, in this thread was talking about being tailgated in the right lane? 😕 Does that even happen? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034/80 "2013-01-16T02:23:55Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Well a cite to your claim that it’s universally safer and more legal to slow down while in the left\passing lane of a multi-lane highway (unless I misunderstood that, was the issue here) would be interesting, yes. Since that runs counter to everything I have ever read or experienced as a professional driver. I retracted that claim and posted a revision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-worse-offender-driving/647034.md?page=5)