# Who's to blame if Biden loses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233 "2024-05-07T18:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/294 "2024-05-10T17:14:56Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/33): > > Hitler wouldn’t have been able to seize power if Von Hindenburg had listened to his instinct and refused to make Hitler his chancellor. Instead, he caved. It was a strategic error that put the keys to the castle in the hands of a fascist. Agreed. Hitler is understandably used in these discussions because most of us here, including me, know a fair amount about German history. But I favor comparing with historical democratic backsliding in other presidential republics, including Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico: [Democratic backsliding in Mexico: Lessons for opponents of authoritarian populism](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/democratic-backsliding-mexico-lessons-opponents-authoritarian-populism) One lesson: Do not give up. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/295 "2024-05-10T17:23:21Z")
You make it sound so easy. In reality, politics is hard, and winning elections is hard. Beating fascist populists is hard, not easy. It wasn’t the Jews (or German liberals) fault that Hitler gained power in Germany. It wasn’t the kulaks (or Russian anti communists) fault that Stalin gained power in the USSR. It’s not liberals’ fault that Trump gained power, or that he might win again. Biden beat an incumbent fascist populist – that’s not an easy task. He may have been the only one in 2020 who could have done it. He’s far from a perfect candidate, but since Obama is ineligible (and Michelle uninterested), I see no evidence that anyone would necessarily be any better. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/297 "2024-05-10T18:07:56Z")
I haven’t concluded anything. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/298 "2024-05-10T18:41:12Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what has Biden ever done for us? But are you so blind that you can’t see that he’s old and corrupt? /s ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/299 "2024-05-10T18:47:45Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/34): > > Only two Dems have even run against Trump for President, and only one in 2020. So I guess what I’m asking is, how does an n of 2 allow you to conclude Biden is the only person in 2020 who could’ve beaten Trump? Extrapolation from known values. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/300 "2024-05-10T18:56:29Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I don’t know whether to laugh or cry . . . I do know that if Trump greenlights a no holds barred genocide, I hope Zahr gets a window seat of the plane he’s deported on. It’s amazing how many people have convinced themselves that living according to **‘cut off my nose to spite my face’** is the way to achieve a safe, happy, and prosperous life. The trouble is, of course, that the choice (in this case, to throw their support from Biden to Trump) that will teach them how wrong they’ve been, will also punish all the rest of us. . . > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > We aren’t saying that you alone are to blame if Biden loses, but if your vote is one of and say, 72,000 people, who had similar motivation and chose to vote third party is enough to sink Biden, by certain calculation you might share as much as 1/72,000 of the credit for the Trump presidency. It’s not just the vote–the choice to decline to vote for Biden–that will entitle the chooser to a share of the blame. It’s the _advocacy_. Not only on a message board like this one, but in personal interactions or elsewhere on the internet. Of course there are professionals engaged in this advocacy on behalf of…whoever. (American billionaires and foreign autocrats alike, in addition to ‘chaos is good’ nutbars of the Steve Bannon ilk.) Not that I’m claiming to see such professionalism here in particular. But we have to expect a lot of it in coming months throughout the entire media landscape. . . > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you shocked by the _actual_ Republican campaigns to drive people away from voting by actually making it harder to vote for people that aren’t like them ethnically and/or ethically and/or politically? I notice that this reasonable question has been studiously ignored by the ‘don’t vote for Biden’ advocates. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/301 "2024-05-10T19:11:03Z")
I’d say the voters are to blame. Specifically me. Specifically a lack of effort. I compare it to the Christian religion…if you really believed you would go to hell if you didn’t do x, y, z, then you would not act so casual about how you go through life. Like that, if I truly believed a Trump presidency would be the “end of the world” then I would not be so casual and un-proactive about how I treat the election and a Biden loss. I do think a Trump presidency would be the “end of the world” and yet I’m fairly passive about it. There are a lot (or enough) of eligible voters who won’t vote, for whatever reason, and if they did vote for Biden, he would win. The difference between the sky will fall if Trump wins and me doing something proactive that requires real energy and effort to prevent it is what is to blame…or rather, I hear Shogun is good, I might give it a watch. Maybe Sugar. Probably both. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/302 "2024-05-10T20:04:19Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > I’d say the voters are to blame. Specifically me. Specifically a lack of effort. Voting is so low effort in the first place that I think the blame falls entirely on voters. You have three clear choices. The two main candidates or third party throwaway aka not voting at all. If you have a choice between a full tyrant and a half tyrant you vote for the half tyrant. Because the half tyrant is comparatively better. Even if the half tyrant is the second worst person in the country, the tyrant is the worst. You vote because you can make lives measurably better for the unit of the election. You don’t throw your tantrum about “the half tyrant must earn my vote.” You make the vote that measurably is better among your choices. If you don’t, you are indeed a bad person. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/303 "2024-05-10T20:21:04Z")
An aphorism from industry keeps coming to mind: _Don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good_. ISTM there are lots of ways to protest Biden’s actions, policies or mannerisms – from quaint old-fashioned letters to the editor to social media diatribes to actual, in-person protests. But voting 3rd party (or not voting at all) shouldn’t be one of them. - If Biden wins, no one cares how you voted\*. - If Trump wins, congratulations – you may have helped. \*Oh sure, someone may still look at all the 3rd party votes and say, _Gee, I wonder what caused that. Let’s knuckle down and find out what those voters want_. But I wouldn’t count on it. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/304 "2024-05-10T21:23:48Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xHjUbLFQssQ/maxresdefault.jpg "'Propaganda is not education': Hillary Clinton on combating misinformation in schools and online") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHjUbLFQssQ) Talking about propaganda, on MSNBC. Even if what she’s saying is true, (which was said to have been “disingenuous” professor of history and Middle East expert at Syracuse University in TNYT), does she have to be so condescending? Does she want more young people to refrain from voting? She’s not doing Biden any favors, in my humble opinion. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/305 "2024-05-10T22:00:50Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Voting is so low effort in the first place that I think the blame falls entirely on voters This one statement is so true and it is so mind-boggling that some people find voting to be such an effort (though in the US it certainly seems to be). But regardless of everything else, I believe that this ultimately falls on the voters (or non-voters as the case may be) until the deterrence levels reach a danger point. IMHO, what Trump and the GOP do is so egregious that it rises clearly above the random, ambient noise generated by the various media. But, if half of the electorate is that spectacularly stupid and ignorant (as it seems to be), then whose fault is that? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/307 "2024-05-10T22:14:23Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/35): > > Not just having them memorize facts but **building up their skills in analysis** and political science. I’ve disagreed with almost everything you’ve written in this thread – but here, you’re right on. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/308 "2024-05-10T22:15:37Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/35): > > I thought HRC had a sophisticated message. Gen Z has a worldview that eschews nuance and a well-informed historical perspective. We’re seeing this acutely with Israel/Gaza, but it’s not a new problem. I actually think she is spot on when she says we need to do a better job teaching history. Not just having them memorize facts but building up their skills in analysis and political science. Things in Gaza seem to have gotten to a point were it shouldn’t matter. What she said has been contested. And she acts as if kids are just stupid. You’re too dumb if your that young, unless we need you for WW3. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/309 "2024-05-10T22:29:51Z")
The replies here show that Democrats will just continue to blame us third party voters once again. I’ve gotten used to them calling voters like me stupid and uninformed, like many people on this thread are doing, and I just don’t care anymore. Keep alienating leftist voters and continue to be surprised when we don’t come out and vote for your candidates. And every time Hillary has decided to chime in with her condescending and elitist attitude it just further reinforces my decision not to vote for her. That was one of the reasons she ended up losing in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/311 "2024-05-10T22:50:23Z")
I don’t know. I don’t see protests in the way you see them, I guess. Right now, I think a lot of peeps are pissed off at people dying in our name with our money. HRC, How did Iraq turn out? How did Libya turn out? But it’s THEM who need to be educated? It’s all bullshit, and once again, I’m voting for Biden. I don’t see how you can defend Hillary here. If it weren’t for the protests, no one would know that anyone over here actually cares. What else can they do? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/312 "2024-05-10T22:54:41Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > If it weren’t for the protests, no one would know that anyone over here actually cares. I’m kinda doubting that anyone in Gaza (et al) is really making an effort to keep up on protests in America . . . I’m betting they’ve got other, far more important, things to do like not getting killed. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/313 "2024-05-10T22:55:34Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m kinda doubting that anyone in Gaza (et al) is really making an effort to keep up on protests in America . . . I’m betting they’ve got other, far more important, things to do like not getting killed. So, you don’t think they can learn when all is done? Some already do, so… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/314 "2024-05-10T23:00:11Z")
Americans, protesting an American war, in America got . . . Nixon elected, twice. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/315 "2024-05-10T23:01:03Z")
Everyone’s to blame but the rule makers. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/316 "2024-05-10T23:06:36Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > The replies here show that Democrats will just continue to blame us third party voters once again. I’ve gotten used to them calling voters like me stupid and uninformed, like many people on this thread are doing, and I just don’t care anymore. Keep alienating leftist voters and continue to be surprised when we don’t come out and vote for your candidates. Exactly. I challenged them that if I voted my protest vote it’s because Biden (nor Trump) convinced me to vote for them. Their reply is effectively I’m an ahole for not voting for a Dem or Pub. I’m guessing their point is that twice as many choices as Russia or North Korea give you so yay America? It’s important to vote, as long you vote for who we want you to because rights? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=15)