# Who's to blame if Biden loses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233 "2024-05-07T18:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/416 "2024-05-13T18:11:06Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/52): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > Seriously, if you don’t agree that the prospect of a second Trump administration is something both very real and very much worth fearing, then we may have to agree to disagree and move on. > > I see a distinction between > > 1. being afraid but not letting this fear affect how you present Biden’s case to those who don’t share your perspective, and > > 2. being afraid and letting this fear affect how you present Biden’s case to those who don’t share perspective. > > Do you think these are one and the same? I’m sincerely curious. Yes, I can see the difference between “letting this fear effect me” and “not letting this fear affect me.” Can you tell the difference between: 1. Look out, there’s a flaming semi barreling directly at you! and 2. Excuse me, but I thought you might want to know that there’s a large truck heading your way, and it’s on fire. Generally speaking, the consequences of being hit by a large truck that’s on fire are not good, so please consider getting out of the way. Of course you can. _But it shouldn’t matter_. The impression I get from you is that you’d consider voting for Biden if only someone explained why in a nice, soothing voice. Kind of like this: > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m afraid of letting the most evil person this nation has ever produced back into the Oval Office. But that doesn’t stop me from pointing out that Biden has done a pretty decent job in spite of entrenched Republican opposition. Rather than having so many infrastructure weeks like the running joke of the previous administration, he got one through Congress. He’s trying to get relief for people on student loans. The Chips Act helps our national security. He has strengthened NATO and stood firm for Ukraine and in opposition to Putin. His Supreme Court pick was solid. He has brough decency back to the Oval Office. But if all of that isn’t enough to make you vote for him, then consider the alternative if we elect a psychopath. If that doesn’t scare you out of wasting your vote on a third party, than nothing will. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/417 "2024-05-13T18:27:57Z")
Do better than what? You don’t want Joe Biden to be president, and he probably won’t be. You want to send a message to the Democrats, and that only works if Biden loses. If you sit out the election, and Biden wins anyway, then the message is that you can (and will) safely be ignored. Sure, what you really wanted was someone who isn’t Biden or Trump to win, but since that’s not actually an option at this point, surely “Biden loses to Trump” is your second best outcome? Otherwise, what’s the point of making a protest vote? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/418 "2024-05-13T18:41:37Z")
Here is [an article](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/13/trump-narrow-lead-battleground-00157541) talking about polling. As it is, polls indicate that Presidents Trump and Cleveland will be the two non-consecutive terms presidents. So maybe we can answer the OP this way, why is Biden trailing behind Trump in the polls? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/419 "2024-05-13T19:29:56Z")
It’s too early to be this pessimistic! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/420 "2024-05-13T19:31:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So maybe we can answer the OP this way, why is Biden trailing behind Trump in the polls? Simply put, because Democrats have not effectively convinced the population of the big gap between the two candidates in terms of how good/suitable/mature/upright they are. There are perhaps 10-20% of American voters who have not yet been convinced that Biden is, in fact, a light-year better than Trump. You can argue that this is unfair to Democrats. You can argue that voters are dumb and blind. You can argue that Biden is gold and Trump is shit. And you might even be right. But until or unless the D’s effectively sell their message to this 10-20% of voters, Biden is in serious danger of losing. And a lot of Ds are living in straight-up denial about this. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/421 "2024-05-13T19:35:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Here is [an article](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/13/trump-narrow-lead-battleground-00157541) talking about polling. As it is, polls indicate that Presidents Trump and Cleveland will be the two non-consecutive terms presidents. So maybe we can answer the OP this way, why is Biden trailing behind Trump in the polls? . Because he isn’t? Or because the results are within the margin of error? That’s not the case everywhere, but let’s look at today’s take on these polls by _Forbes_—which is not exactly the most Democratically-leaning of publications: > [@](#): > > "… In a USA Today/Suffolk University poll released May 6, Trump and Biden are tied, but Trump has lost support among voters under 35 Hispanic voters and independents since January, while Biden has gained support among voters under 35, independents and Black voters (the share of Black voters who support Trump and Hispanic voters who support Biden hasn’t changed, according to the poll, which included third-party candidates as options). > > An April Marist poll was among the latest to show Biden beating Trump 51% to 48% in a two-way race—a one-point swing in the head-to-head matchup since the last Marist/NPR/PBS NewsHour poll in early April—and widening his lead to five points when the three third-party candidates are in the mix—a three-point swing in Biden’s favor. > > The poll follows a NBC survey released a day earlier that found Biden trailing Trump by two points in a head-to-head race, but beating him by two when independent candidates Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Cornel West, plus Green Party candidate Jill Stein, are on the ballot. …" Of course anti-autocracy voters would prefer to see Biden with a comfortable lead. But that’s not the way US Presidential politics have worked for several cycles. It’s always close–both polls and actual votes. > **[Biden Vs. Trump 2024 Election Polls: Trump Expands His Lead—As More Democrats...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/07/19/biden-vs-trump-2024-election-polls-trump-expands-his-lead-as-dems-pressure-biden-to-drop-out/)** > > Trump and Biden were virtually tied in most polls before the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/422 "2024-05-13T19:38:05Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Because he isn’t? Or because the results are within the margin of error? > > That’s not the case everywhere, but let’s look at today’s take on these polls by _Forbes_—which is not exactly the most Democratically-leaning of publications: Then let’s modify it. Why is Biden not curb-stomping Trump in the polls? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/423 "2024-05-13T19:45:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Why is Biden not curb-stomping Trump in the polls? Again, US Presidential politics don’t work that way anymore. In recent decades it’s always been close. Some voters want entertainment above all–Trump wins there. Some voters want white supremacy–implicit if not explicit–above all. Trump wins there, too. Some voters want to keep their billions with no taxes. Trump wins those voters as well. Some voters want action on the climate, on infrastructure, and on personal liberties. Some voters see the American experiment as being worth continuing–another way of saying that they believe that the consent of the governed is crucial to government, and free and fair elections must be preserved. Some voters are willing to give up entertainment, white supremacy, and taxes that hit the working class harder than the top 1%. But their numbers are not yet great enough to give Biden a commanding lead. This may shift as we get closer to November. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/426 "2024-05-13T19:57:01Z")
Moderating: > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/56): > > So you can do better than pretend you don’t know this. You are again attributing motives to someone’s comments that you’re not in a position to know. Knock it off. You’ll receive a formal warning for doing it again. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/427 "2024-05-13T19:58:18Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/55): > > **Person 1**. Fucker, I don’t care if Biden is shitting the bed when it comes to PR. In fact, he isn’t shitting the bed; he’s doing everything perfectly. There’s a gun pointed at me, so of course I’m gonna act like that shit is chocolate…and anyone who doesn’t feel compelled to play along is a fucker!!! > > **Person 2**. Look, I know Biden is shitting the bed when it comes to PR and yeah, it bothers me that our options have come to this. But I’m voting for Biden because between the two candidates, he’s superior for X,Y, and Z reasons. > > Person 1 is what I’m seeing in a lot of spaces (not just here) and it is off-putting for the reasons I’ve explained. It is probably not off-putting to someone who is already a member of the choir, but it off-putting to those who are tired of being shouted at and gaslit. > > Biden is not perfect, he has big weaknesses, and his ego might be the downfall of his candidacy. When people who see this reality encounter Person 1, they see someone who is crazy and _they tune them out_. This entire premise seems very idiosyncratic. It doesn’t map well onto reality. So what if you meet someone who thinks Biden is “perfect”? Why should that meeting change the way you use your vote? You seem to be claiming that large numbers of voters are so delicate that they simply can’t abide the thought that some people like or admire Biden. I just don’t see evidence that you are correct about this. > [@velomont](#): > > The point is, whether one votes **for** Biden or **against** Trump is completely irrelevant. And frantic and panicked or otherwise, the possible breakdown of the post-WW II order and an impending climate disaster, are worthy of significant levels of concern. ^ This. I get that some people are very, very focused on whether or not others agree with them that Biden is A Simply Terrible Person. And I hope that such people are able to find peace of mind. It must be painful to have one’s own mental state so dependent on the opinions of others. But truly: _ **what matters in an election is the outcome** _. Which people had which emotions is beside the point. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/428 "2024-05-13T20:03:14Z")
The other issues is that bread-and-butter matters hit people in the pocketbook harder than almost anything else. Right now, everyone knows the Democrats are the better party at protecting LGBT rights, upholding democracy, etc. The problem is that those things don’t feel like much comfort when inflation has made many groceries cost twice as much as before and the federal minimum wage remains stuck at $7.25 an hour. I read of one couple that had to spend over $30,000 on daycare annually for their kids. Telling them that Democrats will use the right pronouns in referring to them doesn’t help much. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/429 "2024-05-13T20:10:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I read of one couple that had to spend over $30,000 on daycare annually for their kids. Telling them that Democrats will use the right pronouns in referring to them doesn’t help much. Shades of this meme from a few years ago: [x.com](https://twitter.com/Vinncent/status/1325033873235980291) Might I throw out yet another factor? Biden’s terrible choice of Garland. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/431 "2024-05-13T20:19:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > inflation has made many groceries cost twice as much as before and the federal minimum wage remains stuck at $7.25 an hour. The fact that this makes America want the Republicans in charge, the guys who are hell bent on making sure MW stays at $7.25 is why America is to blame. The last two R presidents left us with the two worst economies since the Great Depression and America can’t wait to put their asses back in charge after the D presidents spend years trying to dig us out of the mess they were handed. This country is full of idiots. Think of how dumb the average American is… half the population is dumber than that, and eager to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/432 "2024-05-13T20:38:20Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/55): > > I made peace with the options I had instead of living in the world of “shoulds”. Good for you. The options you have for _ **who will be our next president** _ are Biden and Trump. So which of us is living in the “world of ‘shoulds’”? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/433 "2024-05-13T20:39:33Z")
If voting based on fear is coerced, then I think Republicans have proven that it works, so Democrats would be idiots not to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/434 "2024-05-13T21:04:28Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/56): > > It is true I don’t _want_ Biden to be president. I would prefer him as president than Trump, though. If he lost to Trump it would not be “good news” for me, and you would know this if you’d read my posts. I have been reading your posts, and you don’t seem all that fussed about the possibility of a second Trump administration. Perhaps Biden isn’t the only person with a messaging problem? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/436 "2024-05-13T21:19:11Z")
What strategy? There’s two choices, and you pick one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/438 "2024-05-13T21:30:23Z")
Where on the ballot do you write all that? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/439 "2024-05-13T21:41:58Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/58): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > The options you have for _ **who will be our next president** _ are Biden and Trump. > > > > So which of us is living in the “world of ‘shoulds’”? > > I’m not locked in the land of “everyone should vote for Biden or else.” > > I’m in the land of “I’m using my vote to communicate my true political will to the best extent that I can, knowing full well the EC and the political affiliation of my neighbors effectively negates the weight my vote will have on the presidential outcome. I encourage everyone to be strategic too and I will do my part to persuade them.” Really? Because it sounds to me like you’re in the land of “There should be a better choice on the ballot.” You sound like a thoughtful person and it’s clear no one here (or anywhere else) is going to persuade you to vote for Biden. That’s fine – if you’re in a deep blue state, it’s true that your vote has virtually no consequence. But do you understand why the thought of people like you in purple states terrifies people like us – people who are convinced that another Trump presidency will effectively end the US as we know it? And if it happens, why none of us will give a fuck about you communicating your true political will? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/440 "2024-05-13T22:57:44Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Excuse me, but I thought you might want to know that there’s a large truck heading your way, and it’s on fire. Generally speaking, the consequences of being hit by a large truck that’s on fire are not good, so please consider getting out of the way. But I don’t even think that that would be enough. The only thing that will be satisfactory is an explanation of why one should walk on the sidewalk rather than the street regardless of the presence of trucks, flaming or otherwise. And so we can patiently explain how the how there is more shade on the sidewalk and you and admire the houses more easily. But then he accurately points out that there is also dogshit on the sidewalk, and so until we call someone to get the dog shit cleaned up he will stay where he is in protest. Pointing out that even if we all agree that the dog shit needs to be cleaned up, there is no way that that can happen before he gets hit by the truck is unpersuasive and is equated with being a pro-dog-shit, sidewalk loving, alarmist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=20)