# Who's to blame if Biden loses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233 "2024-05-07T18:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/442 "2024-05-13T23:38:16Z")
See, in November (if you bother to vote) you’ll be presented with a ballot. At this point you will be faced with a choice between Trump and Biden for President of The United States. It’s a spectacularly easy choice. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/443 "2024-05-13T23:51:31Z")
By this sort of logic, Hillary would have won in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/444 "2024-05-14T00:11:15Z")
What else do you do to protest? Do you march? Do you hold up signs in public? Do you spend time and/or money on an alternate candidate? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/445 "2024-05-14T00:22:19Z")
My take on the situation involves logic only at the most basic boolean “or” level. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/446 "2024-05-14T01:45:30Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > See, in November (if you bother to vote) you’ll be presented with a ballot. At this point you will be faced with a choice between Trump and Biden for President of The United States. > It’s a spectacularly easy choice. There are other candidates. I will choose one of them. _That’s_ the spectacularly easy choice. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/447 "2024-05-14T13:04:00Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/60): > > If Biden is not going to change what he says and how he says it, and Biden supporters are not going to change what they say and how they say it This reminds me of a friend who told me in late 2016 that she voted for Trump because she found Hillary smug. I cannot fathom why people feel like they have to like the president, or their style, or how they make them feel. So maybe Biden has a big ego. So maybe he’s not saying the right things to the right people at the right time. Hell, maybe he’s even suffering from some senioritis. So maybe he’s not your ideal choice for president. But I’ll say it as many times as it takes: If Biden loses, Trump wins. There are no other possibilities. So, is that what you want? ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/448 "2024-05-14T13:15:06Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > There are other candidates. I will choose one of them. _That’s_ the spectacularly easy choice. And in response to this, I’ll quote Akaj: > [@Akaj](#): > > But I’ll say it as many times as it takes: If Biden loses, Trump wins. > > There are no other possibilities. > > So, is that what you want? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/449 "2024-05-14T13:17:07Z")
Biden’s got a huge ego. I tell ya, if I had a nickel for every time I saw him hold a press conference next to that airplane with his name on the side… ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/451 "2024-05-14T14:37:17Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/61): > > Why are you asking me this question? Because you keep responding to my posts? > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/61): > > This question is not persuasive because it comes across as fear-driven irrationality. I’ll grant you “fear-driven,” but it’s not the slightest bit irrational. (And, I might add, calling it “irrational” smacks of calling a woman’s POV “hysterical.”) Comparing it to Christians proselytizing against Hell is bullshit, because – unlike the possibility of sinners going to Hell – one of two things is absolutely, positively going to happen in November\*: - Biden wins, or - Trump wins So, fine, no one’s going to persuade you to vote for Biden. But if he loses, people like you deserve a ton of the blame. I hope that thought keeps you warm at night as we slide into theocratic dictatorship. (\*Unless one of them dies, of course) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/452 "2024-05-14T15:16:01Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > So, is that what you want? Seems pretty clear that yes, that’s what they want. If people vote for Biden, they want him to win. If they don’t, they want some other outcome, and the only other outcome in this case is Trump winning. People might find ways to pretend they’re voting for some other reason, but that’s all just rationalization bullshit. Or they just want the attention of being special and different. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/453 "2024-05-14T15:25:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Seems pretty clear that yes, that’s what they want. If people vote for Biden, they want him to win. If they don’t, they want some other outcome, and the only other outcome in this case is Trump winning. I get the feeling people think there are other, more nuanced outcomes possible: - Biden will win anyway, but when the Dems see how many people voted for Stein/West/RFK/Product 19, by gum they’ll have to reckon with how dissatisfied we are! - Trump will win anyway, but at least I’ll feel the satisfaction of sticking to my principles! ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/454 "2024-05-14T15:46:44Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I get the feeling people think there are other, more nuanced outcomes possible: And they don’t seem to get the magnitude of the catastrophe of a Trump win and its global implications ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/455 "2024-05-14T15:48:50Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > And they don’t seem to get the magnitude of the catastrophe of a Trump win and its global implications No, I think that’s what they want. Or they’re clueless. Or they think Trump is great (not necessarily in conflict with being clueless). Some people just want to watch the world burn. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/458 "2024-05-14T16:26:17Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/62): > > If I lived in a red state and said I was voting 3rd party, wouldn’t you think it was stupid and ugly for a Trump supporter to accuse me of wanting Biden to win? No? The Trump supporter would be 100% correct (except for the part where he’s a Trump supporter). If you’re not voting for one guy, you’re implicitly supporting the other guy. Not sure why you thought we’d reach a different conclusion if you swapped the parties around. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/459 "2024-05-14T16:27:37Z")
What’s ugly or rude about it? If you don’t vote for Biden, you want some other outcome than he wins. If you’re a rational person, you recognize the only other outcome is Trump winning. If you think your vote doesn’t matter, then you wouldn’t waste the time voting. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/460 "2024-05-14T16:29:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What’s ugly about it? If you don’t vote for Biden, you want some other outcome than he wins. If you’re a rational person, you recognize the only other outcome is Trump winning. Excluded middle fallacy. If you don’t vote for Trump, you want some other outcome than he wins. If you’re a rational person, you recognize the only other outcome is Biden winning. So what if you vote 3rd party, write-in or don’t vote? Does that favor Trump or Biden? Answer is neither. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/461 "2024-05-14T16:31:06Z")
This presumes the “excluded middle” is rational. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/462 "2024-05-14T16:35:03Z")
Nope. The fallacy you present is that a vote for not-Biden = vote for Trump. That is simply not true and rationality has nothing to do with it. This is logic, not economics. Also look at the symmetry of your statement. I even wrote it for you. Substitute “Trump” for “Biden” and the statement is just as valid. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/463 "2024-05-14T16:36:13Z")
In fact, it’s rational to look at the entire 2024 general election as two opposing factions: **Non-Trump voters** vs. **non-Biden voters**. No third-party candidate can win this year, so every single vote nudges the table in one direction or the other. Away from Biden or away from Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/464 "2024-05-14T16:44:51Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/63): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > And, I might add, calling it “irrational” smacks of calling a woman’s POV “hysterical.” > > What does ignoring what I’m saying in favor of your own unkind inferences smack of? I’m not ignoring what you’re saying. I’m ridiculing it. And if the _tone of people trying to persuade you_ is somehow more important to you than _the devastation another Trump presidency would deliver_, I’m afraid we have nothing further to discuss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=21)