# Who's to blame if Biden loses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233 "2024-05-07T18:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/534 "2024-05-17T14:41:08Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/72): > > The average voter who is leaning towards Trump is not registering the GOP messaging the same way you are. You are hearing “destroying democracy”, while they are hearing “taking control of the nation’s problems”. You are hearing “dictator” while they are hearing “man who can get things done”. For the purposes of Biden’s campaign between now and Election Day 2024, none of this matters. Virtually no one that has a positive view of the GOP messaging in May 2024 is “convertible” in five and a half months. The people you are talking about have to be regarded as ceded to Trump. Instead, it makes more sense for the Biden campaign to attempt to appeal to the “usually don’t vote” people, and especially those that already lean or identify as liberal. Encouraging someone to get out and vote one time is a lot easier than changing someone’s entire worldview in five months. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/536 "2024-05-17T15:27:29Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/73): > > … if you start with the assumption that the “other side” only includes committed Trumpers. My focus was far narrower than the “other side” you mention in your quote. I was referring specifically to a constrained subset of “the other side”, to wit: those who have “_a positive view of the GOP messaging in May 2024_”. “_Those who have a positive view of the GOP messaging in May 2024_”, in turn, is my distillation of your “ **they’s** ” below: > You are hearing “destroying democracy”, while **they are hearing “taking control of the nation’s problems”**. You are hearing “dictator” while **they are hearing “man who can get things done”**. People falling within the spectrum you posit surely exist … but I’m convinced that the number of people in that spectrum is proportionally very, very small. Maybe less than 500,000 people in the entire electorate of ~155-160 million. To me, the “usually don’t vote” cohort may have some overlap with those in the spectrum, but that’s not particularly important. Biden need only work to appeal to some portion of the already-liberal (or leaning) in the “usually don’t vote” cohort. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/537 "2024-05-17T15:33:05Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/73): > > Voters who lean towards Trump is not a concrete category. You can lean hard, soft, and everything in between. It’s a spectrum. This is true, but that doesn’t mean attempting to explicitly court “_people currently softly-leaning to Trump_” is a prudent use of Biden’s campaign resources. I don’t think many “softly-leaning to Trump” are gettable – and those from that cohort that _might_ change their minds within five months will arrive at that change largely on their own and not from direct efforts of Biden’s campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/538 "2024-05-17T15:38:24Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/73): > > Every time a Biden supporter reduces the other side to a bunch of drooling idiots who are knowingly backing fascism, they are asking the other side to reduce them to equally unflattering terms. Ah, the “look what you made me do” argument that arises every time. Saying that others will lie about you if you tell the truth about them is not really a deterrent or a strategy; it’s just an excuse to blame you for what the others were going to do anyway (see: the “deplorables”). Also, rather ironically you are doing to very thing you are accusing other of. Why do you keep describing others in such unflattering terms if you yourself admit it’s ineffective? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/540 "2024-05-17T21:44:20Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/74): > > It’s different this election. We are dealing with an extremely polarized and distrustful public. It has left people feeling confused and frustrated. There is a sense of hopelessness in the air that wasn’t present in 2020. This actually describes Trump supporters very well, and fails in many ways to describe the general electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/541 "2024-05-17T21:55:01Z")
Does it fail, though? I don’t think I’ve changed much as a voter since 2016, but I am more polarized. That’s not because I or the Democrats have really changed all that much, but because the other pole has moved so far away, and in such a crazy manner, that I can no longer consider Republicans for any office. Eight years of watching this circus, and the seventy million Americans who voted Trump in 2020, really frustrated me: the fact that four years after that tens of millions of people are STILL prepared to support him does make me feel pretty hopeless. I mean, maybe some people are trusting and hopeful and not at all frustrated, but with due respect I can’t imagine why. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/542 "2024-05-17T21:57:49Z")
Polarized and distrustful? Confused and frustrated? Confused?? Seriously? That’s the post I was responding to. If you are genuinely confused, I would ask that you find a reason to stay home on election day. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/543 "2024-05-17T22:05:26Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/74): > > It has left people feeling confused… Confused why?? Confused about what?? Spell it out without speaking in grand general terms. Who is confused? Confused about what? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/544 "2024-05-17T22:13:12Z")
Well, I’m confused as to why any human who has achieved voting age without dying of stupidity could vote for that man in 2016, much less 2024, so yes, very confused. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/545 "2024-05-17T22:17:48Z")
But that didn’t affect your vote. The post mentioning confusion implied that the public was unsure of the best choice, which is Russian propaganda bullshit. Also known as American Republican bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/548 "2024-05-18T00:11:08Z")
I think retail politics has infantalized a lot of people, and the large media outlets just amplify it to eleventy. What kind of underwear does the candidate prefer? The expectation that “my guy” is going to pay off my student loan, or pay for this, or pay for that. H.L. Mencken wrote 100 years ago that elections are little more than “an advance auction of stolen goods”. Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/549 "2024-05-18T18:30:35Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/76): > > Let’s suppose I’m completely off the mark here. I’m seeing things that just don’t exist. If that’s true, can you please explain why support for Biden is so low? Because the right, supported by Russia, are really, really good at spreading false narratives. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/551 "2024-05-18T19:11:08Z")
Are you under the impression they are representative of people with whom Biden is unpopular? Whereas “High food and fuel prices are all Biden’s fault!”, “Crime is soaring!” and “The border is wide open!” are common sentiments expressed by those who don’t like Biden, despite none of them being true. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/553 "2024-05-18T19:27:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Whereas “High food and fuel prices are all Biden’s fault!”, “Crime is soaring!” and “The border is wide open!” are common sentiments expressed by those who don’t like Biden, despite none of them being true. I don’t know. I don’t hear about this stuff from the types of people we’re talking about. I hear more about Gaza. Cost of living and prices make a difference to those who have, like 3 jobs. Not saying it’s Biden’s fault. (though I wish wages kept up…) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/554 "2024-05-19T06:34:11Z")
You’re wrong, in the sense that you continue to ascribe to me statements and views I don’t hold and didn’t express. Why do you keep doing that? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/555 "2024-05-19T06:46:25Z")
> [@](#): > > “We are one of the leading organizers on the ground in the city of Detroit. Literally the closest that you’re gonna get to Black people in this city,” Williams said. “But we haven’t heard anything from a Democrat or Republican.” > > [Black men grapple with election choices: 'We haven't heard anything from a Democrat or Republican'](https://apple.news/A9ns-HfmlTpKYz3BH5XEyXg) I guess they haven’t heard conservatives saying how slavery wasn’t really all that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/556 "2024-05-19T08:04:32Z")
It’s undeniable that Democrats have long taken black and other minority votes for granted (although whenever they actually seek to address any minority concerns, the right immediately leap on it as “pandering”). The Democrats as a party aren’t nearly as invested in the concerns of those communities as they often purport to be. But the GOP are actively hostile to those communities and promote policies that would literally hurt them more, as well as doing everything in their power to disenfranchise them. From trying to bring back redlining to encouraging police brutality to simply preventing voters in black neighborhoods standing in long lines to vote (because the Republicans have cut back on the resources at their voting locations) from being given water, cruelty and bigotry are baked into the Republican brand. In short, the Democrats may not care all that much about minority voters, but the Republicans absolutely hate them and want to hurt them. Faced with those choices, the best option is vote for the least worst option and then work to get the much-needed policies prioritized. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/557 "2024-05-19T11:11:14Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > I think retail politics has infantalized a lot of people This well sums up so much. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/559 "2024-05-19T11:58:53Z")
My actual opinions? Sure. Your gross misrepresentations of them? Of course not. Tell me: when you asked these questions: > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/78): > > Would you be confident enough to tell people in Detroit that the problems they are calling out are just figments of their stupid, manipulated imagination? Can you see yourself going to the streets of Detroit and talking to the guy in this article—a guy who is actually serving the community there, not just scrolling on his device all day like a lot of amateur political pundits— and telling him that he’s wrong about his assessment of what the problems actually are? …did you think they were germane to what I said, or were you just throwing out random hypotheticals? Because if it’s the former, you’re definitely ascribing views to me I didn’t express and don’t hold, and if the latter I can safely ignore them as irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/561 "2024-05-19T12:45:47Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/80): > > Are you prepared to go to Detroit to tell residents—many of whom dislike Biden—that “crime is not soaring” when their lived experience says otherwise? You aren’t even saying they are falsely attributing this problem to Biden. You’re saying it’s not even happening. Do you think your position is credible enough to beat the people quoted in that article I posted? > **[Detroit ends 2023 with fewest homicides in 57 years, double-digit drops in...](https://detroitmi.gov/news/detroit-ends-2023-fewest-homicides-57-years-double-digit-drops-shootings-and-carjackings-thanks-dpd)** > > Preliminary numbers show Detroit ended 2023 with 252 criminal homicides, the fewest in any year since 1966. Non-fatal shootings down nearly 16%, carjackings plummet by 33 % Overall violent crime dropped 1%, larcenies and assaults increased   The... But it is true that larcenies are soaring . . . by 11%, and assaults by . . . 0.3%. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=25)