# Who's to blame if Biden loses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233 "2024-05-07T18:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/620 "2024-05-20T20:57:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The impression I get from this thread thus far is that if Biden does in fact lose this November, most Democrats are just going to throw their hands up and say, “Well, we did the best we could, and nothing could have averted this outcome. ” I’m sure “the Democrats” would love to hear any ideas you guys have. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/621 "2024-05-20T20:58:22Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > When he went in front of Congress in March, he knocked it out of the park. We need more of **that** Biden. Many believe that this is why Biden and his team decided to offer to debate Trump in just a few weeks (next month, in fact). It’s making history as the earliest televised Presidential debate since they began. Biden and his advisors are obviously confident that he can show up Trump with a combination of energy and ability to address issues. (And thank all that’s holy for the rule that microphones will be turned off during the other guy’s answer. Some, me among them, believe Trump won’t show up when he finally figures out that he’s agreed to this.) I’m still amazed at all the weird claims in this thread: > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/97): > > … Biden’s incompetent politicking … > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > If I were Biden or Hillary, I wouldn’t be so dismissive of the people … > [@Velocity](#): > > Democrats are behaving as if Biden has a substantial lead as opposed to being tied or slightly trailing. Clearly everyone posting here has a perfect right to their opinions. But those opinions would be more likely to be entertained by others if the opinions were less sweepingly unsupported. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/622 "2024-05-20T21:24:30Z")
Those are all snapshots that indicate that the race is competitive and that not every voter is convinced to vote for Biden. This will probably always be the case. What, specifically, is Biden doing wrong, and what, specifically, should he be doing differently? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/624 "2024-05-20T21:26:47Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/99): > > In other words, circular logic is the guiding principle. On the other hand we have “Trump is obviously flawed and dangerous, anyone competent could beat him. Biden is not beating him (currently). Biden is not competent.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/626 "2024-05-20T21:28:43Z")
AFAICT the only thing you offered, and you’ve felt this way long before any actual '24 campaigning was done, is that Biden should not be the nominee. And then a bunch of your feelings about why you think Biden sucks. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/627 "2024-05-20T21:28:50Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Clearly everyone posting here has a perfect right to their opinions. But those opinions would be more likely to be entertained by others if the opinions were less sweepingly unsupported. Could you clarify what you’d like me to clarify or what I said that’s unsupported? I don’t speak for, or even agree with the others you’ve quoted ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/628 "2024-05-20T21:29:22Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/93): > > My question for you is simple. What if New Era was able to tell Biden exactly what they wanted him to do as President, in a very reasonable, thorough, and well-researched kind of way. On the other hand, what if they can’t? What if their criticism of Biden is baseless and uninformed, and their expectations of what he can do are not possible to achieve given the actual powers of the office of the president? What then? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/630 "2024-05-20T21:36:26Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/101): > > “Trump is dangerous and an _extremely effective conman_. If Biden is playing to win against a more persuasive opponent, he can’t afford to be a lazy politician.” I agree with this! So let’s see evidence that he’s being a “lazy politician”. Just to note – polling is not evidence of this. Complaints of individual voters is, at most, minuscule evidence of this; we could cite praise from individual voters (such as myself and other participants of this thread) that Biden is doing fine, as equally strong evidence against it. Pundit opinions aren’t evidence of anything beyond the opinion of that pundit. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/631 "2024-05-20T21:36:28Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/101): > > If Biden is playing to win against a more persuasive opponent, he can’t afford to be a lazy politician.” I just can’t imagine Biden, trailing in the polls, has decided to phone it in. He knows what’s at stake better than all of us. Maybe he can pull it off, Maybe he can’t. But I see no evidence he isn’t going to try. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/633 "2024-05-20T21:45:20Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/102): > > If Biden doesn’t even to try to hear them out—after they put the ball in his court in national media—what does this make Biden? But what if he does hear them out, and decides their demands are unrealistic and unworkable? What then? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/635 "2024-05-20T21:51:25Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Could you clarify what you’d like me to clarify or what I said that’s unsupported? Yes. I was referring to the portion of your post that I quoted in the post to which you replied. Specifically: > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > If I were Biden or Hillary, I wouldn’t be so dismissive of the people … I didn’t quote your entire sentence because what I hoped you would provide supportive evidence of was your claim that Biden is being “dismissive” of particular people (no matter who they are). I get that some are citing a recent comment of Hillary’s as evidence that she is “dismissive” of particular people. I don’t agree with that interpretation, but I’m not asking about Hillary, _because she’s not running for President._ I’m asking you for evidence to support your claim that Biden is being “dismissive.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/636 "2024-05-20T21:51:48Z")
The other thing to remember is that it’s May. I’m perfectly content for him to ramp up slowly: very little he can do between now and September will matter as much as what he does in October and early November. In the meantime, there’s kind of a lot going on with Trump. Might as well see what happens there and shape strategy accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/637 "2024-05-20T21:52:48Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/103): > > Because he was selfish enough to run for re-election. That’s a sign right there that the man is thinking with his ego rather than considering the needs of the country. Or maybe it’s a sign you’re judging this based on your own feelings rather than actual facts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/640 "2024-05-20T21:57:13Z")
Indeed. Your own imagination is just as convincing as that other internet stranger’s! ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/641 "2024-05-20T22:05:37Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’m asking you for evidence to support your claim that Biden is being “dismissive.” That’s fair. You’re right to ask, and thanks for keeping me honest. I don’t have any concrete evidence, and I apologize for making it sound as if I did. I really wasn’t trying to be a jackass. I shouldn’t post after eating edibles, but I think what I was referring to was this: > **[In private, Biden shifts from frustration to confidence that he'll beat Trump](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-frustration-confidence-win-november-rcna149430)** > > The president's mood has been buoyed by recent polling and his visits to battleground states, as Trump sits in a Manhattan courtroom for his criminal trial. Which doesn’t really implicate what I claimed, so you’re right, I shouldn’t have included Biden. As far as Hillary is concerned. I don’t know if “dismissive” is the right word to use. Condescending maybe? What would you call it? In my opinion, she should know better after 2016. She talks down to young people in her interview with Joe Scarborough about Israel. I don’t know. I think she should know better. My opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/642 "2024-05-20T22:06:14Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/104): > > Then at least he talked to them? Like politicians are supposed to do with people they are trying to attract support from? Are you suggesting that Biden hasn’t been talking to Black community leaders at all? Or is it specifically folks from New Era that he needs to meet with? > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1001913/104): > > I’m interested in seeing the next question you will come back with in this “let me think of a silly chain of ‘what ifs’ to make Biden’s do-nothingness justified to myself and others.” You asked, “What if they have really good arguments, and Biden ignores them?” I asked, “What if they have really shitty arguments, and Biden humors them?” How is mine sillier than yours? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/643 "2024-05-20T22:08:14Z")
So, just to recap: A question for all the Biden supporters here: Are you of the opinion that his campaign is already doing all it can to win, and nothing further can be done to improve his odds of winning? If Biden loses, are you going to say, “He did the best he could, nothing could have averted this defeat?” Again, not being combative - I seriously get the impression that most Biden supporters are “yes” to both questions. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/644 "2024-05-20T22:10:21Z")
It’s impossible to know. I hope so, and considering his record so far (success as a candidate in '20, and some surprising success in legislative gains as president), I’m reasonably confident his team is smarter and more capable at politics than anyone on the Dope, but there’s no way to know for sure, and probably no way to have even the slightest idea until after election day. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/645 "2024-05-20T22:21:30Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > As far as Hillary is concerned. I don’t know if “dismissive” is the right word to use. Condescending maybe? What would you call it? In the context of the conversation in which she said it, I’d call it ‘pragmatic’ and ‘reasonable.’ Your question was fair, but you’d probably agree that it’s a sidetrack. I’ll just offer a link so that people can revisit the remark if they want to. (It took place during an interview she did with Jimmy Fallon on the _Tonight Show_.) > **["Get over yourself": Hillary Clinton's message for voters upset about Biden...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/over-yourself-hillary-clintons-message-111602802.html)** > > I mean, it's Biden vs. Trump. We know that. What do you say to voters who are upset that those are the two choices? Get over yourself. Those are the two choices. Yeah, I love that. And, you know, it's kind of like, one is old and effective and... > [@Velocity](#): > > Are you of the opinion that his campaign is already doing all it can to win, and nothing further can be done to improve his odds of winning? > > If Biden loses, are you going to say, “He did the best he could, nothing could have averted this defeat?” > > Again, not being combative - I seriously get the impression that most Biden supporters are “yes” to both questions. I don’t share your impression. You might get agreement about ‘most Biden supporters’ if your formulations were less absolute. But “nothing could have averted this defeat” and “nothing further can be done to improve his odds of winning” are much more extreme positions than, I’d guess, ‘most’ Biden supporters would take. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/647 "2024-05-20T22:34:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So, just to recap: A question for all the Biden supporters here: > > Are you of the opinion that his campaign is already doing all it can to win, and nothing further can be done to improve his odds of winning? > > If Biden loses, are you going to say, “He did the best he could, nothing could have averted this defeat?” > > Again, not being combative - I seriously get the impression that most Biden supporters are “yes” to both questions. My position right now is that for several years, Biden has generally been underestimated, by myself, other Democrats, his opponents, and the media. Again and again he’s generally done better electorally (if we count '22 as well as '20) and in governing then expected, AFAICT. Right now, I see no reason to believe that, all of a sudden, his critics are correct, when they’ve usually been wrong before. IMO. No certainty, just opinion. And AFAICT it’s just opinion that has been offered the other way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=28)