# Who's to blame if Biden loses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233 "2024-05-07T18:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/672 "2024-05-21T13:45:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Voters who aren’t satisfied with Biden can stamp their petulant little feet all day long; it won’t change the fact that the two options are Biden and Trump. …I’m not trying to be an ass at all, but you literally said exactly that, and you seem hostile, (again). If you want to talk to potential voters that way, I’d think it’d be counter productive. I’m not here to have nasty fights with people whom, I agree withth on 85% - 90% on something. Jesus, for as long as I’ve been here, it still shocks me that some people on this message board can be so insulating if they disagree, and assume the people they’re talking to are being uncharitable. I’m trying to listen and I come in peace, god damnit. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/673 "2024-05-21T13:45:56Z")
> [@SyncoSmalls](#): > > So the lesson for Dems should be not to run someone _that_ old or _that_ unpopular. And certainly don’t do it if they are both things And what will the lesson be when Biden beats Trump by a larger margin than 2020? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/674 "2024-05-21T13:48:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And if they’re so offended by that that they get Trump elected, they are petulant children who have brought whatever suffering Trump causes onto themselves. Still snarky, but you at least specify people refusing to vote for Biden here, not just simply “unsatisfied” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/675 "2024-05-21T13:51:37Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > …I’m not trying to be an ass at all, but you literally said exactly that, and you seem hostile, (again). I absolutely _am_ hostile to people who will abandon Joe Biden and throw our country to Donald Trump because Biden won’t call me a genocider, yes. But you asked: > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > So the voters are being petulant if they’re not satisfied? And I answered you: no. Not being satisfied doesn’t make you petulant. I myself am not really satisfied with either candidate. But come election day, I will go and vote for the guy who I am 65% satisfied with over the guy I was 2% satisfied with 4 years ago (let’s be very generous here, it might be 0.02%). If I refused to do that, and started crying over the fact that I disapprove of 35% of what he does, and therefore I get the guy I disagree with 98% elected - that would make me a petulant little crybaby. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/676 "2024-05-21T13:52:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I absolutely _am_ hostile to people who will abandon Joe Biden and throw our country to Donald Trump because Biden won’t call me a genocider, yes. Could you elaborate? Or are you being disingenuous? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/677 "2024-05-21T13:53:18Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Still snarky, but you at least specify people refusing to vote for Biden here, not just simply “unsatisfied” I thought that was obvious from the start. If you are unsatisfied with Biden, but you grit your teeth and vote for him, you are not helping Trump win, and I am not complaining about you. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/678 "2024-05-21T13:53:59Z")
Seems like you are. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/679 "2024-05-21T13:54:36Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > I absolutely _am_ hostile to people who will abandon Joe Biden and throw our country to Donald Trump because Biden won’t call me a genocider, yes. > > Could you elaborate? Or are you being disingenuous? I thought you’d brought up people who refuse to vote for Biden because he refuses to call the war in Gaza a genocide; maybe I am mixing this up with another similar thread. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/680 "2024-05-21T13:57:35Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Seems like you are. I am pretty confused here. I got into this conversation by saying that Hillary is right: people who don’t like the options “Biden” or “Trump” need to suck it up and vote Biden anyways, if they are opposed to a Trump presidency. You don’t have to like or be satisfied with Biden. If you did, you’d have nothing to “suck up” - you’d just be a Biden supporter. If you are going to vote for Biden despite your quibbles with him, that means you _are_ sucking it up, and doing precisely what Hillary and I said you should do. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/681 "2024-05-21T13:57:44Z")
No, that’s not what I said. I don’t know what what constitutes a genocide enough to claim that. For you to willy-nilly include that os kind of insulting seeing that you specified YOU being the genocider, not the Israeli government. I don’t believe YOU are good faith, right now. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/682 "2024-05-21T14:00:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > need to suck it up Even “suck it up” seems a lot more delicate than “get over yourselves”. And not only am I voting for Biden, I’m trying to, despite Hillary’s best efforts, get others to vote for him as well. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/683 "2024-05-21T14:01:42Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > For you to willy-nilly include that os kind of insulting seeing that you specified YOU being the genocider, not the Israeli government. Fine, substitute “supporter of genocide” then, because that’s exactly what I have been called by these protestors; but if you didn’t bring that up here I apologize for my mistake and withdraw that bit. Frankly, I don’t care if a voter passes on Biden because of Gaza, because they want a single player healthcare system, or because he hasn’t done enough on climate change; they’re still tossing our country to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/684 "2024-05-21T14:02:23Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > And not only am I voting for Biden, I’m trying to, despite Hillary’s best efforts, get others to vote for him as well. Then you are not the person I have problems with. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/685 "2024-05-21T14:05:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I have been called by these protestors Are you sure? You misrepresented me, how am I to trust you’re being accurate with their intentions? Not saying you’re “lying”, I’m just saying being as completely honest as you can be with what you think others are telling you is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/686 "2024-05-21T14:09:25Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Not saying you’re “lying”, I’m just saying being as completely honest as you can be with what you think others are telling you is a good thing. If they call the war in Gaza a genocide, they are calling me a supporter of genocide. But this is a hijack to your thread; if I was mistaken about you mentioning this motivation among Biden skeptical people upthread then it’s not relevant here. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/687 "2024-05-21T14:14:10Z")
Actually, you _did_ bring it up, a few times. What exactly are you objecting to me saying? When I said: > [@Babale](#): > > I thought you’d brought up people who refuse to vote for Biden because he refuses to call the war in Gaza a genocide; I was talking about people who oppose Biden because they feel: > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > What Israel is doing, on it’s face, seems absolutely insane. It’s not just any disagreement. I never said that _you_ consider this a genocide, or are going against Biden because he won’t call it that. I am saying that I am opposed to people who, _unlike you_, are not voting for Biden because they don’t think he is hard enough on Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/688 "2024-05-21T14:16:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > > > Fallon: _“What do you say to voters who are upset that those are the two choices?”_ > > > > Hillary: “Get over yourself. Those are the two choices,” > > I mean. Hillary is 100% correct, though. Voters who aren’t satisfied with Biden can stamp their petulant little feet all day long; it won’t change the fact that the two options are Biden and Trump. She is 100% correct. She should also STFU. That’s the attitude that helped get Trump elected. If I’m Biden I’m asking Hillary to stay out of the public eye until December, because she’s as likely to hurt his chances as help them. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/690 "2024-05-21T14:23:31Z")
> [@SyncoSmalls](#): > > Do you really think that’s going to happen? Because I’m interested in seeing the data that supports such optimism. _[deep breath]_ There’s not much _reliable_ data in either direction. I don’t believe “the polls”, collectively, should be accepted uncritically. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/691 "2024-05-21T14:27:04Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > …because Biden won’t call me a genocider, yes. Perhaps you didn’t specify me labeling anyone a “genocider”, but you did say this, which confuses me more. Yes, I think the Israeli government is taking this too far with the current information I have. I know a lot of people, Jewish and otherwise, who agree. But that may derail. I could be swayed into altering my perspective on certain details, still. But yeah, I think enough is enough when it’s our money. We can try to have an honest conversation about that elsewhere, though. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/693 "2024-05-21T14:30:48Z")
> [@SyncoSmalls](#): > > But the polls are the best data we have for prognostication purposes. I am convinced that too many polls have methodological problems or are even nakedly gamed. I’m not sure how to account for that in evaluating any random set of poll data that may reach my ken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=30)