# Who's to blame if Biden loses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233 "2024-05-07T18:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/82 "2024-05-08T14:48:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Biden has so much to run on. The defeat of student loan forgiveness due to people unaffected by it. The spread of anti-abortion and anti-LGBTQ laws (drag illegal in Tennessee? Really?). If Biden loses it’s because he did not get out the message that America is about personal liberty. We have not repealed the 4th Amendment. The Constitution runs this country, not The Bible in the hands of religious zealots. Why was Ketanji Brown Jackson a great appointment to SCOTUS? Not because she’s black. Not because she’s a woman. It’s because she’s a former defense attorney and just watch Youtube to see how the police constantly violate our civil rights. THAT’S the message that needs to get out there. Hell, writing that all down almost makes me want to vote for him myself. Yes! Even better coming from a poster who (correct me if I’m wrong) leans right and has at times been sharply critical of Biden and Dems in general. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/83 "2024-05-08T15:06:55Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’m having an increasingly difficult time promoting Biden to others. I don’t get this. I was no Biden fan prior to his becoming President, but IMHO he’s been the best President of my lifetime. He kept the economy from going into a recession after Covid, we’ve got the lowest unemployment for the longest in 50 years, wages have gone up faster than inflation (and the U.S. has done a much better job of controlling inflation than any of the other First World countries during the Covid era), his NLRB has done a great deal to empower unions, he’s passed legislation that at least starts addressing climate change - and he did all that with a razor-thin House majority and a 50-50 Senate where Manchinema were sandbagging him at every turn. Gaza is the only thing I’ve been unhappy with his handling of. He should have stopped arms shipments to Israel months ago. But Trump would have backed Israel to the hilt, and been openly talking about a Trump resort on Gaza’s Med coast once all those worthless Palestinians were evicted, so even there it’s no comparison. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/84 "2024-05-08T15:12:32Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Gaza is the only thing I’ve been unhappy with his handling of. Even here, he just stopped the most recent shipment due to concerns about a Rafah invasion. No way Trump is doing that (he would barely even know what’s going on). ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/85 "2024-05-08T15:14:23Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Gaza is the only thing I’ve been unhappy with his handling of. He should have stopped arms shipments to Israel months ago. But Trump would have backed Israel to the hilt, and been openly talking about a Trump resort on Gaza’s Med coast once all those worthless Palestinians were evicted, so even there it’s no comparison. That’s the point. You have two choices as far as how something would be handled. Biden or Trump. Beyond Trump’s corruption and fascist desires, he’s also proven to be an incompetent leader. He lacks knowledge, chooses poor associates, and is cowardly. He is truly unfit to lead. That is a low bar for me to set, I think W was fit to lead even though I disagreed with his choices. Trump is not fit to lead. This election is between two people who have already been president. They should be able to run on their records. Trump was president not so long ago. There is ample evidence for voters as to how he would conduct himself or what he hopes and plans to do should he be elected again. The same with Biden, long record now as president and how he would conduct himself. As a campaign, this really should not matter. Records should matter 100 times more than mailings, speeches, stammering during a debate, whatever you want to put out there. The records of these two people are out there. Voters who insist that a candidate has to parse their words just so, make the proper campaign stops, are abdicating their own responsibility as citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/86 "2024-05-08T15:22:12Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Even better coming from a poster who (correct me if I’m wrong) leans right and has at times been sharply critical of Biden and Dems in general. Social progressive and fiscal conservative. Think 70’s Libertarian Republicanism. Yes, there are a few of us left. If it is Biden vs Trump, I think my protest vote this year will be for Kamala. That should tell you how far from its roots the Republican Party has fallen. I will point out that Biden will probably lose because the optics his administration puts out is bad. It’s so bad that he might Clinton the 2024 election. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/87 "2024-05-08T15:29:12Z")
For President, I vote almost exclusively third-party, so it doesn’t matter who wins – I’m responsible for the other party losing. Frankly, fuck you (not you you, OP) for demanding that I vote for your piece of shit just to ensure that another piece of shit doesn’t win, instead of voting for someone I might actually have alignment with. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/88 "2024-05-08T15:36:12Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Fox “News”, OAN, Trump, the Republican SCOTUS and Republicans themselves, together with their Russian/Chinese/North Korean/Iranian/Netanyahu assistance are going to run that person through a meat grinder in the run-up to this election. If only it was just them. The reality is that the mainstream media have put a big anti-Biden thumb on the scales. (Not the first Dem they’ve done that to. Remember when the FTFNYT drooled over getting their advance copy of “Clinton Cash”?) With all that’s gone amazingly _right_ with the economy, they’ve been going inflation, inflation, inflation. They’ve made a fetish out of Biden’s age (how many stories did the FTFNYT do over Hur’s bullshit allegations?) even though he’s in good health (rides a bicycle regularly - let’s see Trump stay on one for 50 feet) and clearly mentally sharp, while Trump’s just three and a half years younger, clearly out of shape, and also quite frequently saying things in his public speeches that make no sense at all. There’s certainly reason to believe that Trump’s on the slide into dementia, but that possibility has gotten little if any play. They’ve given plenty of play to the allegations against Hunter Biden, and given plenty of space to GOPers baselessly claiming that Biden’s used his office to help enrich Hunter. How much do they say about the $2B Saudi fund that Jared Kushner was given to manage? If Trump should win and he sics his brownshirts on the FTFNYT offices, they’ll only have themselves to blame. (And yes, the ‘FTF’ before ‘NYT’ stands for exactly what you’d think.) ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/89 "2024-05-08T15:42:44Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > which usually means most extremist can you elaborate on this? Who on the Dems side do you consider to be an extremist? And how do the measure up to MAGA? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/90 "2024-05-08T15:46:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > FTFNYT What’s this mean? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/91 "2024-05-08T15:48:01Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Who on the Dems side do you consider to be an extremist? And how do the measure up to MAGA? I did put “usually” in there. The most extremist Dem is maybe 1% of what a typical MAGAt is like. The modern Democratic Party just doesn’t attract frothing-at-the-mouth types like the GOP does. But the point is, if you wanted someone different today, the time to get involved was 10 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/92 "2024-05-08T15:50:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The problem with blaming the voters is that it doesn’t take any effort or skill by the campaigns into account. By this logic, the DNC and Biden’s campaign manager could run the lousiest, laziest, worst campaign in history but if Biden loses, they should just kick up heels, drink margaritas and sigh, _“It’s all the voters’ fault. Nothing we did contributed to or caused this.”_ I don’t disagree, but what is the point of having a democracy if this is the case? Is it like a reality show where we’re phoning the station to vote for the best campaign, or are we democratically electing the best candidate? Are we supposed to be cleverer than the campaigners and use our well-honed critical skills to outwit the show managers and select the best candidate despite them? (If so, it’s not working.) I just don’t see the point of dragging hundreds of millions of people to the polls all the time if it’s just to express one of two professionally manipulated opinions. However, that leads to my answer to the OP: I blame (in order) 1. Trump voters in swing states 2. Non-voters in swing states 3. Other Trump voters 4. Other non-voters 5. Media Trump coverage, nature thereof (but not fact thereof) 6. American education in civics and rhetoric 7. Third-party voters ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/93 "2024-05-08T15:51:00Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Frankly, fuck you (not you you, OP) for demanding that I vote for your piece of shit just to ensure that another piece of shit doesn’t win, instead of voting for someone I might actually have alignment with. This election isn’t about you and your ability to more fully express yourself with your vote. None of them are. If you think “voting for someone [you] might actually have alignment with” is more important than trying to suss out which of Biden or Trump would be better for this country as President, nobody can tell you not to. But I will call that an abdication of your responsibility as a citizen and as an adult. If you think they’re both pieces of shit, well, you’re entitled to your opinion, but if so, it’s a fact that they’re both very **different** pieces of shit that will take this country down very different paths. If somehow that’s all the same to you, please let us know just what you think they’re the same on that is more important than the vast differences between the two that are up for grabs in this election. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/94 "2024-05-08T15:51:36Z")
Fuck The Fucking New York Times ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/95 "2024-05-08T16:07:40Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Who on the Dems side do you consider to be an extremist? Waters and AOC who are safely tucked away in the House with Boebert and MTG. Point being they are not Senators, Governors or presidential candidates. Is that a feature or a bug? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/96 "2024-05-08T16:10:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Waters and AOC who are safely tucked away in the House with Boebert and MTG. Point being they are not Senators, Governors or presidential candidates. Is that a feature or a bug? Could you explain what they believe that makes you consider them extremists? What about Bernie? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/97 "2024-05-08T16:14:48Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Could you explain what they believe that makes you consider them extremists? Maxine Waters is just flat out psycho. Would you not say they are among the most progressive on the Dem side? I considered Bernie (who may be disqualified as not a Democrat although he caucuses with them) and Warren but while they are progressive it is more of push the current envelope than the extremeism of setting the world on fire to watch it burn. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/98 "2024-05-08T16:16:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maxine Waters is just flat out psycho. Would you not say they are among the most progressive on the Dem side? I considered Bernie (who may be disqualified as not a Democrat although he caucuses with them) and Warren but while they are progressive it is more of push the current envelope than the extremeism of setting the world on fire to watch it burn. My first question wasn’t addressed at all. And I don’t understand the Warren and Sanders exceptions either. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/99 "2024-05-08T16:22:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maxine Waters is just flat out psycho. Would you not say they are among the most progressive on the Dem side? I considered Bernie (who may be disqualified as not a Democrat although he caucuses with them) and Warren but while they are progressive it is more of push the current envelope than the extremeism of setting the world on fire to watch it burn. Huh?? How is either Waters or AOC “setting the world on fire to watch it burn”? Especially if you regard Bernie and Warren as “more of push the current envelope”? AOC in particular has demonstrated that she’s a team player: she may vote against a Dem bill if her vote isn’t needed and she sees problems with it, but she doesn’t sink Dem legislation. Can’t speak to Waters, I’ve paid little attention to her. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/100 "2024-05-08T16:31:38Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maxine Waters is just flat out psycho. What specifically makes her an extremist? Repeatedly slurring her doesn’t tell us jack. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233/101 "2024-05-08T16:33:08Z")
I’m gonna say one more thing I think Biden has done, and brought his party with him. The Dems have had a bit too much of a history pandering to centrists, and they’ve been willing to throw assorted groups under the bus in order to win moderate votes. Blacks, gays, women, hourly workers, unions, undocumented workers, you name it, there’s always some group they’re throwing under the bus. _They’re not doing that anymore._ From Biden on down, the whole party (at least at the national level, can’t speak to all 50 state parties) has gotten past that. And that’s a good thing, the way the GOP is ratcheting things up against pretty much all those groups. But these last three years have been the first time in 27 years or so of considering myself a Democrat that I’ve been able to say I’m fucking _proud_ to be a Democrat. We’re the good guys, and we’re not waffling on it anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-to-blame-if-biden-loses/1001233.md?page=6)