# Whose success (or at least fame) do you simply not understand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823 "2011-03-15T19:19:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/61 "2011-03-17T14:17:15Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > My big one was Sally Struthers. Other than _All In The Family_, the only thing I know she’s done is hawk technical school (can’t remember which one). I was really surprised to see her young and naked in a scene of an old Jack Nicholson film; I think it was _Five Easy Pieces_, but I could be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/62 "2011-03-17T16:02:56Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > I am not sure what you are getting at Snooki isn’t cute. She’s not even as good looking as Kim Kardassian. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/63 "2011-03-17T17:13:06Z")
The answer to people like Snookie and Paris Hilton is attention. They are famous because everyone pays attention to them and attention is like crack to teenage girls. People were making a fuzz about Jersey Shore long before a single episode was shown, this created a lot of buzz for it and made it the beast that it is now. Girls don’t look at Snookie and think “she’s so smart and attractive and talented, i wish i was like her” they think “everyone pays attention to everything she does, i wish i was like her”. Attention is the reason 10 year olds dress like strippers and teenagers think its a good idea to get pregnant, it’s not exactly a surprise that it determinates who their idols are also. As to why she got picked to be on the show to begin with, my guess is drama potential. Fake manufactured drama is what drives reality shows. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/64 "2011-03-17T19:04:57Z")
Chris Crocker. I really can’t understand what he did that made anyone care about him in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/65 "2011-03-17T20:07:01Z")
[This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc) is what he did. Why did that make people care about him? The internet is a strange place. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/66 "2011-03-18T02:21:33Z")
> [@Rrose\_Selavy](#): > > Justin Timberlake. > > He’s not that good looking, in fact a bit wimpy, He still looks about 13 - his moves and music seem derivative - he hasn’t got a particularly impressive voice - the high pitched wining doesn’t work for me. > His performances continue to underwhelm me. > > I still don’t get his success. Are you kidding? Justin Timberlake may have started out as a gimmick, but he has proven himself to be a phenomenal musician, decent actor, and very funny guy. His SNL performances have been some of the best they have had in a long time. He is clearly one of the most talented artists working today. Even if his music is not your cup of tea, you should realize he is very, very talented, and understandably famous. > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, show of hands: Is there anyone out there who doesn’t personally know several women who are hotter than Kim Kardashian, but who nonetheless are not famous? Sure, it helps to be hot, but that’s not enough for fame, not by a longshot. Honestly, if her looks were that of a regular girl, she would not be famous. I think you need to look past your biases to recognize that the vast majority of people don’t know several women better looking than her. Period. She is very attractive. If you know several people better looking than her, please provide proof, and, of course, tell me where you live. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/67 "2011-03-18T03:36:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Honestly, if her looks were that of a regular girl, she would not be famous. Well, yes, her physical appearance is above average, and if it weren’t, she wouldn’t be famous. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t still women who are even further above average. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/68 "2011-03-18T08:18:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, yes, her physical appearance is above average, and if it weren’t, she wouldn’t be famous. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t still women who are even further above average. Looking around me right now, I can see several women who are as hot as KK or more. But they happen to be happy to work as organizational consultants, civil engineers or environmental auditors - they’re no more interested in having unknowns masturbate to their asses than KK in graphing calculators. The first step to being a celebrity is wanting to. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/69 "2011-03-18T09:23:23Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Looking around me right now, I can see several women who are as hot as KK or more. But they happen to be happy to work as organizational consultants, civil engineers or environmental auditors - they’re no more interested in having unknowns masturbate to their asses than KK in graphing calculators. The first step to being a celebrity is wanting to. Oh nonsense. If her looks were so easily surpassed by many people, she wouldn’t be known for her beauty. Surely all of these people better looking than her aren’t engineers or auditors. Some must want to make tens of millions a year to model or live off their looks. People should learn to give the devil his due. You don’t have to like people like Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian, but to think they are not attractive people in the eyes of most other people is pretty myopic. Feel free to prove me wrong with pictures of all these attractive women you see though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/70 "2011-03-18T09:25:02Z")
Sorry dear, providing your with pictures of my coworkers would be illegal - not doing it. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/71 "2011-03-18T09:53:21Z")
I prefer natural beauty. Kim Kardashian, specifically, seems to be one of those types of people who need artifice to maintain any level of beauty, and if left to her own naturalness would be quite ordinary, like the majority of women. Having said that, Paris Hilton, also specifically, has a natural cuteness, that she knows exactly how to exploit to her advantage (which is kind of sexy in itself). ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/72 "2011-03-18T10:08:27Z")
The Kardashians\* are famous because they were on that one Star Trek show, the one on a space station instead of a ship or something. Paris Hilton is a coke-filled butterface who I wouldn’t kick out of bed if I found her in mine, but also wouldn’t get a second look from me if she walked by at the mall. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/73 "2011-03-18T11:03:29Z")
> [@EvilTOJ](#): > > The Kardashians\* are famous because they were on that one Star Trek show, the one on a space station instead of a ship or something. Paris Hilton is a coke-filled butterface who I wouldn’t kick out of bed if I found her in mine, but also wouldn’t get a second look from me if she walked by at the mall. But can someone tell me why the Kalingan sisters have such a following? As far as I can tell, they’re just a couple of skanks in leather dominatrix gear who keep threatening to knife people.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/74 "2011-03-18T11:20:51Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Oh nonsense. If her looks were so easily surpassed by many people, she wouldn’t be known for her beauty. Surely all of these people better looking than her aren’t engineers or auditors. > > \ > > Feel free to prove me wrong with pictures of all these attractive women you see though. 😃 I agree with **GuanoLad** - Kim Kardashian is quite ordinary if left to her own naturalness. Rather than asking for pictures of more attractive women, you should look for pictures of Kim Kardashian without all her makeup on. She’s definitely not _ugly_ - she is pretty and has good bone structure, but without makeup I know several girls IRL who are better looking than her. Pics of Kim Kardashian without makeup: [http://www.topsocialite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/kim-kardashian-no-make-up-1.jpg](http://www.topsocialite.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/kim-kardashian-no-make-up-1.jpg) [![](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JFX5_9i0Xng/S_E9ji5P5LI/AAAAAAAAD-E/FzZ37-KZhgs/s1600/Kim_Kardashian_Nude_Without_Makeup%252B2.jpg) ](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JFX5_9i0Xng/S_E9ji5P5LI/AAAAAAAAD-E/FzZ37-KZhgs/s1600/Kim_Kardashian_Nude_Without_Makeup%252B2.jpg) [http://www.stylebyme.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/kim-kardashian-with-without-makeup.jpg](http://www.stylebyme.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/kim-kardashian-with-without-makeup.jpg) [![](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ngrAPtzKcj0/TKESaRQVe2I/AAAAAAAABjE/a2CblRHHcAU/s1600/kim%2Bkardashian%2Bwithout%2Bmakeup%2Bon.jpg) ](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ngrAPtzKcj0/TKESaRQVe2I/AAAAAAAABjE/a2CblRHHcAU/s1600/kim%2Bkardashian%2Bwithout%2Bmakeup%2Bon.jpg) [http://footballclips.net/forum/files/kimk/kim\_kardashian\_without\_makeup2.jpg](http://footballclips.net/forum/files/kimk/kim_kardashian_without_makeup2.jpg) Basically, her whole “job” in life is to be a celebrity based on her looks. So she spends all her time working out, buying expensive clothes, tanning, working with a stylist, etc… IMO, any decent looking women can look “celebrity attractive” if they have a great makeup artist. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/75 "2011-03-18T12:01:29Z")
Walk around any college campus in America for half an hour and you will see dozens of women better looking than Kim Kardashian. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/76 "2011-03-18T12:07:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Walk around any college campus in America for half an hour and you will see dozens of women better looking than Kim Kardashian. Heck, just type in “college girl” into Google Image search. (Safesearch on Moderate, unless you also want them to have something stiff in their mouth.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/77 "2011-03-18T12:11:03Z")
> [@Rrose\_Selavy](#): > > Justin Timberlake. > > He’s not that good looking, in fact a bit wimpy, He still looks about 13 - his moves and music seem derivative - he hasn’t got a particularly impressive voice - the high pitched wining doesn’t work for me. > His performances continue to underwhelm me. > > I still don’t get his success. Wow, I definitely was not expecting to see this name pop up in here. Justin went from being in a boy band – one of the least artistically respected ways to be famous – and then went on to prove how multi-faceted he was with his talents. His singing’s decent, he’s a very good dancer, but IMHO, where he really shines is his acting. Also how he manages to exhude sexiness when, strictly speaking, he’s one of the plainer looking men in the entertainment business. I’m not dissing you, this thread did ask for personal opinions and you’re definitely entitled to your opinion – but I do feel compelled to voice my surprise. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/78 "2011-03-18T16:59:38Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > She had a bit of name recognition from Robert Kardashian and the OJ trial, and she had family money. Which is also how Paris got her start - name and money. You forgot the sex tape. That seems to be the formula. Have name recognition, money you didn’t work for, a sex tape, and nothing better to do than to be pimped out. > [@Kyla](#): > > Kesha. Don’t you mean Ke$ha? :rolleyes: The lady can’t sing even if they Auto-Tune the heck out of her. The girl who [parodies](http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1935457) her on CollegeHumor is a better singer than she is. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/79 "2011-03-18T17:04:44Z")
\*\*Whose success (or at least fame) do you simply not understand? \*\* Nicolas Cage. One day someone will have to explain that to me. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823/80 "2011-03-18T17:59:58Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > \*\*Whose success (or at least fame) do you simply not understand? \*\* > > Nicolas Cage. One day someone will have to explain that to me. His last name isn’t really Cage, it is Coppola. When you consider the pull his family has I’m surprised he isn’t _more_ famous, really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whose-success-or-at-least-fame-do-you-simply-not-understand/574823.md?page=5)