# Why Afghanistan is Not my Favorite Country **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 26, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969 "2001-02-26T21:09:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/21 "2001-02-27T06:57:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nimune \* > Not that I’m an expert on the middle east or anything, but I’m pretty sure the Taliban is squarely on the US. These are the guys we backed (over the moderate, western-educated Afghanis, mind you) to force out the Soviets. Are you on crack? The Taliban are just about more vehemently anti-US than Iran’s theocracy ever dreamed for itself! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/22 "2001-02-27T06:59:24Z")
Which goes to prove everything we always knew about US foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/23 "2001-02-27T07:52:22Z")
**Monty:** …And? We gave them guns, anti-aircraft missiles, and truckloads of money, and once they’re in power, they turn around and start screaming about how awful the US is. Yeah, that’s sure unusual, alright. What’s the world coming to when you can’t count on the gratitude of a bunch of homicidal religious maniacs? Soviet control of Afghanistan was broken after a very long and very brutal war, the rebel side of which was almost entirely funded by the US, through the offices of the CIA. We gave the most support to the best fighters, who happened (go figure) to be the psychotic fundamentalists. After they killed all the Soviets, they turned around and killed, well, pretty much everybody else in the country. The Taliban were the only ones left standing. However, not a single American life was lost in the conflict, and the USSR got its ass handed to them big time. The CIA routinely holds up Afghanistan as one of their great victoties. That the country is now one of the most brutal oppressive regimes in the world tells you something about the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/24 "2001-02-27T13:49:33Z")
There seems to be some confusion about the origins of the Taliban. It appears that, for the most part, they are not the same mujadeen that fought off the Soviets. The beginning of the Taliban seems to have orginated in Pakistani refugee camps and there are many who claim they were trained by Pakistani Intellgence. [http://members.nbci.com/afg\_taliban/who.html](http://members.nbci.com/afg_taliban/who.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/25 "2001-02-27T14:28:27Z")
**Colibri** : > [@](#): > > Y’know, I think that Afghanistan is the only country in history that had a better and more enlightened goverment as a Soviet satellite than it ever had before or since. **Colibri** , meet Turkmenistan: [Asia’s new hermit kingdom](http://www.atimes.com/c-asia/BG28Ag01.html) [Turkmenbashi Cult](http://www.yurope.com/people/danko/niyazov.html) [All Turkmenbashi, All the Time](http://www.motherjones.com/reality_check/rall2.html) [Turkmenistan](http://www.cpj.org/attacks97/europe/turkmenistan.html) …not that the Taliban isn’t also evil, or that life in Afghanistan doesn’t also suck. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/26 "2001-02-27T15:31:48Z")
A word or two: Re Soviets fault. I would hazard the opinion that the Soviet invasion and subsequent regime served to destroy the legitimacy of modernization/liberalization in Afghanistan. The Taliban are just the most extreme end of a spectrum of reaction against the Soviets. It also should be noted they are the product of, in part, the intelligentsia including the religious intelligentsia being more or less destroyed in the war. Country preachers are in charge. Re Taliban, who are they?: They are new, true enough. Not necessarily mujahideen against the Soviets. However, they are a product of the power politics which arose out of the Soviet invasion. Combination of people being sick of the in-fighting which arose among the various factions of the “mujahideen” after Soviet withdrawal with Pakistani power-plays. The later is understandable to an extent given the chaos and threat to Pakistan from said chaos. It also plays into Sunni-Shiite politics – these fellows are a particularly retrograde manif of Sunni thought, Iran was/has been backing Shiite factions along its border. Power politics mixed with religion. Mind you, Shi’i religious politics are actually infinately more liberal than the Taliban. Indeed, you see a lot more women in Iran holding power than in most of the Middle East. All in all, strikes me that we and the Soviets bear a large measure of moral responsibility for creating --in an indirect sense-- the Taliban. Ah well, such are the facts of power… ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/27 "2001-02-27T15:34:56Z")
I still think the perfect solution is to have the Mayor call the Powerpuff Girls before Mojo Mohammed Omar destroys those statues . . . ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/28 "2001-02-27T17:01:45Z")
While I agree that destroying a few statues is not a big deal in and of itself, what the Taliban is proposing is an indicator of the direction of the government. About four years ago, they said there was no threat to these statues: > [@](#): > > On 28 April 1997, Mullah Mohammad Omar, heading the Supreme Council of the Taliban Islamic Movement, declared through a statement issued by their Ambassador in Islamabad that the Buddhas will not be destroyed. In a later communication to SPACH, the Taliban Deputy Minister for Information and Culture Alhaj Mawlavi Abdul Rahman Ahmad Hotaki stated that the preservation of Afghanistan’s cultural heritage will never be neglected by the Taliban - and that concerns relating to the Buddhas are therefore “irrelevant and baseless.” (From [UNESCO](http://www.unesco.org/whc/news/135.txt)) The Taliban is not only ordering the destruction of these particular statues, but **every** statue in the country. They are destroying not only religious artifacts but also their own cultural heritage. It is not simply a case of conquerers destroying the works of the past. The head of the Taliban, Mullah Mohammed Omar, is [quoted as saying] ([http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south\_asia/newsid\_1192000/1192195.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1192000/1192195.stm)): > [@](#): > > All we are breaking are stones. While technically true, this shows a callous disregard for religion, history, archealogy, pretty much anything that doesn’t fit into their narrow worldview. I will grant that destruction of statues doesn’t compare with their mistreatment of women, but there is no reason I can’t be upset by both. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_A\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@Just\_A\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_A_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/29 "2001-02-28T02:15:34Z")
Let’s be honest people…was Afghanistan EVER anyone’s favorite country?? I know when I am asked to think of my favorite country, Afghanistan has never been in the running… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/30 "2001-02-28T04:57:19Z")
Let’s call the Powder Puff Girls before anymore women are killed because they showed a wrist… Sorry…I know, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/31 "2001-02-28T17:25:41Z")
Why don’t we just give the whole country back to Danny Dravot and Peachy Carnehan? ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/32 "2001-02-28T23:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Which goes to prove everything we always knew about US foreign policy. \*\* Quiet, Canuck! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/33 "2001-03-01T05:56:14Z")
There’s an old story that the Molsems of Central Asia tell about Alp Arslan, the same sultan who threw the Byzantines out of Anatolia. Invading Afghanistan, he charged into a Buddhist temple and personally attacked a large statue. When the priests protested and offered ransom if he would stop, he answered that he was not a merchant of false gods, and continued to swing his hammer. The statue burst open, revealing itself to be hollow and filled with jewels. The Taliban know this story as clearly as we know the lyrics to “Gilligan’s Island.” I doubt there’s much chance of their being bought off. ---
**Author:** ![Caliban](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Caliban](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caliban)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/34 "2001-03-01T07:01:15Z")
Ack! My name rhymes with Taliban! ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/35 "2001-03-01T16:04:47Z")
I read on one of the I’net services that the Taliban are making the threat of destroying these cultural artifacts as a way of gaining official recognition in the international community. Right now, only 3 countries recognize them as the offical government of Afghanistan; Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt (may be wrong about those, pulling the names out of memory). By threatening to destroy the statuary, they hope to spurn other countries to establish official relations with them so as to negotiate some sort of settlement about the fate of the statuary. That’s the rumor going 'round. ---
**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/36 "2001-03-01T18:59:23Z")
They’ve started on the statues today: [http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010301/ts/afghan\_statues\_dc\_4.html](http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010301/ts/afghan_statues_dc_4.html) The Taliban got the UN to talk to them about it; maybe **Freyr** rumor is correct … Arjuna34 ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/37 "2001-03-02T02:38:53Z")
I think the 3 nations that recognize the Taliban are Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United Arab Emirates. You may be right about the recognition thing, I don’t know, the Taliban is woefully (and rightfully, IMHO) short on respect, but this is an odd and counterproductive way for them to go about it. Come to think of it, it’s an odd and counterproductive government too! hmmmmmmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/38 "2001-03-02T07:05:12Z")
Egypt most definitely does not recognize the Taliban as far as I know. The countries that recognize this barbaric government have to have elements of hardline Islamic fundamentalism themselves, including (as Wevets pointed out) UAE, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia–not exactly moderates. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/39 "2001-03-02T07:34:35Z")
Gee, you’d think they’d already have enough stones to go round for stoning the gays and women without having to break up ancient statutes for more. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969/40 "2001-03-02T13:15:11Z")
A note for all: I thought you might appreciate learning that _al-Hyaat_ today reports on its front page a severely negative reaction towards the Taliban’s destruction of statues from the Islamic world. Iran and the mufti of Egypt both issued condemnatory statements. The Mufti in particular was quite harsh, (my translation) after noting that the “monuments” were unmolested in Afghanistan during the “the past ages” after Islam entered Afghanistan, he asked the rhetorical question regarding the Taliban: “Was there never Muslim rule in the past ten centuries until the Taliban movement came?” There’s some citation to Koranic stuff here in his statement which I read as being anti-Taliban but frankly its over my head. The article also mentions condemnation coming from Sheikh Qardawi, a big “Islamic” intellectual. There’s also a full article on Qardawi’s call for a special Islamic conference on the subject. If there is any interest I’ll try to report more on this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-afghanistan-is-not-my-favorite-country/55969.md?page=3)