# Why all the disdain for George Lucas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 26, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626 "2009-12-26T13:50:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/81 "2009-12-27T03:36:21Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > If you think _The Phantom Menace_ is “pretty good”, what do you consider “really crappy”? :dubious: > > Because, pretty much any way you look at it, _The Phantom Menace_ is a really crappy movie. It doesn’t have a protagonist, there are gaping plot holes, characters act with inconsistent motivations or no motivations at all, the dialog is awkwardly written and delivered, and the conclusion is neither emotionally nor intellectually satisfying. It also has a hopelessly ambiguous title. I still can’t figure out if it means (a) a menace which is phantomy (incorporeal yet dangerous), (b) “phantom” as in illusory, as in nothing truly ominous or threatening at all, or (c) an invasion by a bunch of spooky apparitions. The funny thing is that none of these interpretations actually fit the actual plot, unless you want to argue that Palpatine wanted the good guys to win this round, in exchange for more significant gains in the future. \ ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/82 "2009-12-27T03:52:49Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > It also has a hopelessly ambiguous title. I still can’t figure out if it means (a) a menace which is phantomy (incorporeal yet dangerous), (b) “phantom” as in illusory, as in nothing truly ominous or threatening at all, or (c) an invasion by a bunch of spooky apparitions. The funny thing is that none of these interpretations actually fit the actual plot, unless you want to argue that Palpatine wanted the good guys to win this round, in exchange for more significant gains in the future. \ I thiiiink it means that the obvious menace (the Trade Federation, Separatists, and all them) wasn’t the real threat at all, it was just a smokescreen put up by the real threat Palpatine. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Baldy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Gary\_Baldy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Baldy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/83 "2009-12-27T04:15:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Can you locate the quote? I cannot find a cite for it, but it was referenced in Bloom County when Return of the Jedi came out. Notice the [fifth cartoon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11926800). Not only is there a reference to the total of nine movies, but Berke Breathed predicted the release of the next movie to be in 1998…Phantom Menace was released in 1999. So close… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/84 "2009-12-27T04:25:51Z")
> [@Gary\_Baldy](#): > > Notice the [fifth cartoon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11926800). Now THAT’s funny! 😛 . ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/85 "2009-12-27T05:24:52Z")
I have rather low standards, so I think Eps I-III were just fine. More accurately, I can find things to like in most movies, and in I-III I focused more on the incredible state of CGI and on Natalie Portman than on a sense of wonder at an epic adventure. The way I make it make sense is that there was a guy who created Eps IV-VI who was just fantastic, and there was another completely different guy who made Eps I-III. He was less fantastic. However, I have a BIG issue with Lucas: he re-released IV and changed it so that Han Solo **didn’t shoot first**. I don’t like revising history. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/86 "2009-12-27T05:35:03Z")
> [@Gary\_Baldy](#): > > I cannot find a cite for it, but it was referenced in Bloom County when Return of the Jedi came out. Notice the [fifth cartoon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11926800). Not only is there a reference to the total of nine movies, but Berke Breathed predicted the release of the next movie to be in 1998…Phantom Menace was released in 1999. So close… I don’t think your link goes where you think it goes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/87 "2009-12-27T05:45:13Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Doesn’t bother me 1 bit that tons of people hate these movies, I kind of think it’s funny. I like many things very few people like. For example I read many history books, not many people do that. On the flip side I dislike many things people love. For example I dislike 95% of all TV shows , I never watch anything on CBS, ABC, Fox or NBC except sports. I really, really hate onions and seafood and lasagna - many people love that stuff. Wow, you’re, like, some sort of iconoclast! You seriously don’t like lasagna? Have you come out to your family yet? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Baldy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Gary\_Baldy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Baldy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/88 "2009-12-27T05:46:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Now THAT’s funny! 😛 > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I don’t think your link goes where you think it goes. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! [Fifth Cartoon now](http://www.angelfire.com/vamp/shoopshoop/starwars.html) ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/89 "2009-12-27T05:47:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wow, you’re, like, some sort of iconoclast! You seriously don’t like lasagna? Have you come out to your family yet? Yeah! It’s no wonder all us nerds can’t ever get women, rebel bad boys like **Bijou** steal them all! What with his TV, seafood, onion and lasagna hating ways and all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/90 "2009-12-27T15:43:05Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > It takes 70 minutes to say- the actors suck, the director sucks , the plot/story sucks, and the CGI sucks? Did I miss anything? How about a side-by-side comparison of the opening shots from A New Hope and and The Phantom Menace exploring about how the former uses camera angle and visual imagery to establish backstory, while the later doesn’t. Or a side-by-side comparison of the light-saber duels at the end of Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace showing why the former has emotional weight and the latter doesn’t. See, it’s boring just to say “the director sucks”. What’s interesting is to analyze his technique to understand WHY he sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Cream\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ice\_Cream\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Cream_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/91 "2009-12-27T16:33:36Z")
Another vote for watching the 70 minute commentary. And also a clarification of the interviews asking people to describe various characters: The interviewees were asked to describe various characters without mentioning how they looked or what their roles/professions were in the movies. Han Solo: Rogue, dashing, arrogant, etc. Qui Gon Jinn: … Leia: Strong willed, somewhat bratty, confident, moral Amidalla: dead pan? Stoic? It’s a really good point. ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/92 "2009-12-27T17:34:32Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > That 70-minute review of Phantom Menace is actually worth watching. I didn’t care for the persona of the reviewer (the voice and the serial killer aspects were just annoying), but even with a totally grating voice, it was fun to watch, and actually quite intelligent. Totally agree. He really summed up the problem in one sentence: “How much more could you fuck up the entire back story to Star Wars?” And then he’s off… Lucas just seemed to lose sight of the fact that the movie needed to be fun. Instead, it’s a convoluted mess of dull characters and an incomprehensible plot… And he ignored fundamental tenets of film-making–which I think you can do in moderation–you just can’t throw ALL the rules out the window (i.e., a protagonist, an inciting event, characters with depth, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/93 "2009-12-27T17:46:29Z")
I’m 30 minutes into the review. It’s just an amazing evisceration without ever dipping into fanboy nitpick territory (so far, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/94 "2009-12-27T19:18:31Z")
**Bijou Drains** , it looks like your main goal in this thread is to antagonize other posters. Stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/95 "2009-12-27T22:16:36Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I am 13, but I will be 14 next month. Wow, I’m impressed! [You’re a 13-year-old who passed the GMAT in 1981 and got an MBA!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11661707#post11661707) Consider this a formal warning for trolling. You have some explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/96 "2009-12-27T22:29:38Z")
I will join in to support the 70-minute commentary. Very insightful and informative. Generally, I do not give much thought to movies not worth thinking about. I watched EP1 and thought it was mediocre. Apparently, thinking about the film forces you to confront it’s story and characters and that’s when I realized what a giant turd of a movie it is. If you don’t think about it, and just accept the plot holes and the unappealing one dimensional characters, then the movie’s visual appeal might work for you. But it’s too late for me. My mind is forever corrupted by the 70-minute review. I won’t be able to watch the movie again without realizing that very little in the film makes sense. Some people don’t care about this, but I like a well thought out story in movies. Everyone has different tastes. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/97 "2009-12-27T22:32:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Wow, I’m impressed! [You’re a 13-year-old who passed the GMAT in 1981 and got an MBA!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11661707#post11661707) > > Consider this a formal warning for trolling. You have some explaining to do. As much as I disgagree with Bijou Drains’s tactics in this thread, I’m pretty confident he (?) was being factitious with that response, as it was in reply to someone who sarcastically asked if he was 12. Rest of his posts are still fair game though. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/98 "2009-12-27T22:54:32Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > But it’s too late for me. My mind is forever corrupted by the 70-minute review. For me, it explained precisely why I got bored halfway through TPM the last time I watched it. I almost never stop watching a movie in the middle, but I just couldn’t keep myself interested. I never was able to articulate why beyond “It bored me,” but as the creepy guy says, the biggest problem is there’s no interesting characters, and more damningly no characters the audience can identify with. The very first Star Wars movie made you want to root for Luke. His victory was your victory, his loss when Ben died was your loss. I couldn’t give a damn about Qui-Gon or Anakin in TPM if I tried. Things just happen on screen with no emotional attachment. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/99 "2009-12-28T00:01:07Z")
You went and looked at all my previous posts to figure out how old I was? Why not just read the first post in this thread? If you want some trivia I saw Star Wars for the first time on 8/16/77. Search on that date and see what else was in the news that day. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626/100 "2009-12-28T00:32:12Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Here’s a funny and entertaining [blow-by-blow explanation](http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/12/17/watch-this-70-minute-video-review-of-star-wars-the-phantom-menace/) of why The Phantom Menace was such a piece of crap. And it’s not just the reviewer complaining about Jar Jar Binks. It’s 70 minutes long, which may seem insane, but its a brilliant dissection of how the movie fails, on multiple levels, to meet the needs of the audience. > > Now, you may be thinking “Why would I want to watch 70 MINUTES of commentary on The Phantom Menace?” Well, for one thing it’s far more interesting than the Phantom Menace itself ever was. And for another it provides a lot of insight about how characters and plot function in movies in general. > > (Warning, the commentaries are sometimes NSFW with inappropriate language and offensive jokes. I haven’t linked directly to them, but to a page that links to them.) I’ve been following that guy since his ST:Generations review, he is an absolute legend! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-disdain-for-george-lucas/522626.md?page=6)