# Why all the focus on Kagan's looks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913 "2010-05-10T14:33:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/21 "2010-05-10T16:48:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > It used to be very common for articles/interviews about a woman would mention what she was wearing and that was not done for men. That reinforced the idea that looks are more important for a woman. “Used to be”? It still happens. I remember a story on the radio about Hillary Clinton during the 2008 campaign, and one of the things that stuck in my head was the comment about her “looking resplendent in her powder-blue pantsuit.” I don’t believe I ever heard anyone mention how great the suit was that Obama or Edwards was wearing at any time during the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/22 "2010-05-10T16:50:18Z")
It’s less common now for a woman’s clothing to be talked about. That’s why I said it used to be very common. I know it still happens. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/23 "2010-05-10T16:50:40Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Well, obviously appearance is an important aspect of being a Supreme Court Justice. > > How else do you explain Antonin Scalia? Guy’s fucking hot. > > Okay, I just threw up in my mouth a little. Hell, I don’t even need a pic, his last name makes me shiver in discomfort. That’s a venereal disease name if I ever heard one. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/24 "2010-05-10T17:26:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I actually hope they do try to make her alleged orientation an issue. I think that would backfire on them big time. Nobody under 50 cares anymore. Same here. A GOP senator has a lot more reason to use a liberal background/history to oppose confirmation than he does opposing her because of her orientation. If the conservative base yells too loudly to vote no because she’s a lesbian, there’s some serious backlash. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/25 "2010-05-10T17:57:20Z")
I came in ready to smack down the OP for being so stupid as to miss their obvious importance. On inspecting the title, it does not, in fact, contain the word ‘books.’ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/26 "2010-05-10T18:01:46Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/27 "2010-05-10T18:11:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. Great Debates? … OK if you say so. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/28 "2010-05-10T18:15:16Z")
I agree that people are commenting on Kagan’s looks because they’re just looking for something to rip on her about. As others have said, she’s an ordinary looking woman. She has a very nice smile. A high round neckline is not flattering to her. She looks better with a v-neck or slightly lower round neckline. And I’m really not sure what else there is to say about her looks. Did people make a big deal about Madeleine Albright’s looks? I don’t remember. p.s. If Kagan wants to make herself look better, she should stand next to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Yeah, I said it. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/29 "2010-05-10T18:26:55Z")
I have no problem with her looks but I do admit when I first saw a photo of her I thought it was a Mike Myers character. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/30 "2010-05-10T18:27:33Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Did people make a big deal about Madeleine Albright’s looks? I vaguely remember somebody called her a fat little tomato after she wore some bright red dress, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/31 "2010-05-10T18:27:43Z")
The very first time I saw her my immediate reaction was: 1. They’re going to call her a lesbian. 2. I hope she is, and she’s out, and it backfires. If this does become an actual issue, it’ll be interesting to see how politicians react, based on their constituents’ prejudices or lack thereof . . . especially since this is an election year. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/32 "2010-05-10T18:30:16Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Did people make a big deal about Madeleine Albright’s looks? I don’t remember. You bet they did. But nobody has suffered more in this area than Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/33 "2010-05-10T18:54:43Z")
I have to admit that when I first saw her picture, I thought to myself that that is one fugly woman. In this morning’s _Times_, she looks like Charlie Weis in drag, minus the weight. > **[Today's Paper](https://www.nytimes.com/section/todayspaper)** > > Today’s Paper ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/34 "2010-05-10T19:28:46Z")
If I recall correctly, the smear about Kagan’s sexuality came, not from the right, but from a liberal columnist, congratulating the administration on nominating a gay person to the Court. The administration took great offense, calling it a “smear”, and provoking some discussion about whether it should be considered as such, whether true or false. Undoubtedly, there will be some on the right who will object to Kagan because of this, and more because of her judicial philosophy (to the extent it can be discerned from her record), but she should be confirmed fairly readily. The Republican minority in the Senate will talk it up a bit, but probably not go to the wall, as she is probably about as good a nominee (from their perspective) as they can expect from Obama. In fact, there has been quite a bit of discussion from the left about whether Obama should have taken advantage of his large Congressional majority and nominated someone quite a bit to the left of Kagan, leaving her nomination in reserve should a vacancy come up after the next Congress (which is almost certain to be less favorable to such a nominee) is elected. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/35 "2010-05-10T19:33:38Z")
How is it a smear? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/36 "2010-05-10T19:44:41Z")
Well, that’s the question. Is it a smear to call someone gay if they aren’t? How about if they are? Frankly, speaking as a guy who tends to the conservative side politically, I couldn’t care less which way, if any, Kagan swings. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/37 "2010-05-10T20:01:04Z")
None of that now. You used the term. Why? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/38 "2010-05-10T20:19:29Z")
Women often are judged on their looks. That’s pretty much it ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/39 "2010-05-10T20:30:39Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I have no problem with her looks but I do admit when I first saw a photo of her I thought it was a Mike Myers character. You beat me to it. She’s Fat Bastard’s sister - Fatima Bastard. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/40 "2010-05-10T20:48:51Z")
The novelist Dorothy L. Sayers had an amusing [take on this media phenomenon](http://books.google.com/books?id=eyK52OvOMb0C&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=Dorothy+Sayers+human+not+quite+human&source=bl&ots=UamkwjIDzs&sig=1hRMwCLQJ39vi4wpaxQd8q666Zk&hl=en&ei=ZW_oS4WPOcO88gb7h53xDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDIQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Dorothy%20Sayers%20human%20not%20quite%20human&f=false) with the gender roles reversed: > [@](#): > > Probably no man has ever troubled to imagine how strange his life would appear to himself if it were unrelentingly assessed in terms of his maleness […] > > If he gave an interview to a reporter, or performed any unusual exploit, he would find it recorded in such terms as these: “Professor Bract, although a distinguished botanist, is not in any way an unmanly man. He has, in fact, a wife and seven children. Tall and burly, the hands with which he handles his delicate specimens are as gnarled and powerful as those of a Canadian lumberjack, and when I swilled beer with him in his laboratory, he bawled his conclusions at me in a strong, gruff voice that implemented the promise of his swaggering moustache.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913.md?page=3)