# Why all the focus on Kagan's looks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913 "2010-05-10T14:33:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/41 "2010-05-10T21:04:30Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Beyond this, is there a culture where women are not judged on their looks or desired for their bodies? Of course not, and neither is there a culture where men are not judged on their looks or desired for their bodies. And I don’t see why there should be: aesthetic and sexual evaluations of other humans are part of our human nature, and there’s nothing wrong with that. However, there are **specific social contexts** in almost every culture where it is not considered appropriate to **publicly discuss** one’s evaluation of another person’s looks or desirability. And I think it’s reasonable to say that debating the merits of a Supreme Court nominee is one such context. Anybody who looks at Elena Kagan and thinks she’s ugly is totally entitled to their opinion. Anybody who thinks that their opinion about Elena Kagan’s looks belongs in a serious discussion of Kagan’s qualifications to serve on the US Supreme Court is a pig, and a clueless pig at that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/42 "2010-05-10T21:08:37Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I read a comment that noted she was “unmarried” which I took as code for lesbian (otherwise why mention it?). I assume the lesbian accusations are just speculation, since I haven’t seen any legitimate sources mention it and it would be newsworthy if she were openly gay. Would it? It was something everybody knew about Condi Rice, but it was almost never mentioned (except on messageboards). ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/43 "2010-05-10T21:27:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Would it? It was something everybody knew about Condi Rice, but it was almost never mentioned (except on messageboards). Maybe because not everything everybody knows is true, or at least verifiably true. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/44 "2010-05-10T21:33:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Would it? It was something everybody knew about Condi Rice, but it was almost never mentioned (except on messageboards). Like Kagan, Rice was a plain women, but she was fit and trim, and was dressed about as fashionably and elegantly as her budget would allow. Hairstyle choices aside, her taste in clothes and accessories was impeccable. Other than her being unmarried nothing about her (IMO) gave off a dykey vibe. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/45 "2010-05-10T21:46:15Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > “Used to be”? It still happens. I remember a story on the radio about Hillary Clinton during the 2008 campaign, and one of the things that stuck in my head was the comment about her “looking resplendent in her powder-blue pantsuit.” I don’t believe I ever heard anyone mention how great the suit was that Obama or Edwards was wearing at any time during the campaign. Maybe not–but I’m _sure_ I heard a comment somewhere about Edwards’ wonderful haircut … ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/46 "2010-05-10T21:48:23Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Other than her being unmarried nothing about her (IMO) gave off a dykey vibe. But you see, that’s _enough._ Especially if she speaks with confidence and seems at ease with power. At the end of the day, that’s man stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/47 "2010-05-10T21:53:57Z")
Al Gore’s fashion choices were the subject of great scrutiny during his campaign for President, and there’s an argument that Nixon’s five o’clock shadow hurt him in the race against the handsome Kennedy, but those are something of an exception. As far as Supreme Court justices go, Bork raised some amount of suspicion and mockery over his beard, but again looks are not usually part of the equation. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/48 "2010-05-10T22:34:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s all they’ve got. They’re also calling her a lesbian. This is a regular thing that right wingers do to any prominent woman who is left of center. Janet Reno, Hillary, Madeline Albright, Michelle Obama. Sorry, but the only problem I have with those women is that 3/4 of them are butt-ugly. Yeah yeah yeah, they’re all strong and powerful, but c’mon, we made fun of Quayle’s ears. If we admire Michelle’s triceps and tasteful sense of style then we also get to marvel at Kagan’s triple-chin. And for clarification, Kagan is not “tubby”. I am 10 lbs overweight, _I_ am tubby. Kagan is obese. If people are saying her looks have anything to do with her abilities on the bench, then so what? They’re the same idiots who double park on a busy street during rush hour or who text and drive. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/49 "2010-05-10T23:11:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > None of that now. You used the term. Why? Sorry about that. I originally had both instances of the word “smear” in quotes, and took the first one out because it looked odd. After the original commentator congratulated the White House for nominating an allegedly gay person the White House itself called it a “smear”. After this there was quite a bit of online discussion about whether or not an allegation of being gay could or should be considered a smear. My usage was in reference to the online discussion. I haven’t taken the time to think through whether or not it should be considered a smear. I suppose it in part depends on whether the target of the alleged smear would consider it such or not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/50 "2010-05-11T00:03:25Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > If I recall correctly, the smear about Kagan’s sexuality came, not from the right, but from a liberal columnist No, Domenech is a [conservative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Domenech). One of the founders of [Redstate.com](http://Redstate.com), in fact. Total wingnut rightie. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/51 "2010-05-11T00:27:16Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Apparently it’s the hair.](http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/445/is-elena-kagan-gay.html) Looking up her picture before I read this thread, my first instinct on seeing her was that she looked gay (going by her hair). If it turns out she is, that can certainly be a factor in whether or not she gets sworn in. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/52 "2010-05-11T00:27:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, Domenech is a [conservative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Domenech). One of the founders of [Redstate.com](http://Redstate.com), in fact. Total wingnut rightie. Whoops… it appears that you are right (as to the source). Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/53 "2010-05-11T00:52:42Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Whoops… it appears that you are right (as to the source). Thanks for the correction. Maybe you jumped to conclusions because he works for CBS now? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/54 "2010-05-11T01:04:05Z")
While I’ll agree that the focus on Palin’s looks were partly caused by her being female, Kagan’s a different story. She is so far on the left of the attractiveness bell curve that this is something statistically noteworthy. When New Jersey elected an [man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_christie) who is equally unusually fat, that was made a big deal of and that equally made sense. So yes, it is possible that women are unusually judged by their looks. No, that is not what’s causing the Kagan comments now. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/55 "2010-05-11T01:55:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Would it? It was something everybody knew about Condi Rice, but it was almost never mentioned (except on messageboards). She’s gay?!:eek: It’s Ricky MArtin all over again. I’m serious ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/56 "2010-05-11T01:56:47Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Looking up her picture before I read this thread, my first instinct on seeing her was that she looked gay (going by her hair). If it turns out she is, that can certainly be a factor in whether or not she gets sworn in. My gaydar (which isn’t that sensitive) pinged when I saw her. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/57 "2010-05-11T02:09:36Z")
I can only imagine the quagmire that would be searching for these threads, but there have been quite a few posts on this topic as it relates to Clinton and Sarah Palin (especially her in/famous running outfit photos). The problem seems to be being too hot or not hot enough. That’s about it. Ugly pantsuits, sexy skirts, frumpy colors, eye-catching colors, too much like mother-in-law, too much like hot teacher, too much make-up, not enough make-up, old-fashioned hair, butch hair, pageant hair, winking, smiling, laughing coyly, cackling, trying to be a man, looking like a harlot… I pity the stylists. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/58 "2010-05-11T02:29:39Z")
Hijack: **Cat Fight** , you know who always looks put together, and attractive without being distracting? [Mara Liasson](http://www.harrywalker.com/images/photos/large/Liasson_Mara.jpg). My judgement could be biased because I think she’s an excellent journalist (I watch her on Fox News Sunday because her predictions are spot on a scary 90+% of the time) but her look is very, very good. I can’t imagine anyone could find fault with it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/59 "2010-05-11T02:47:09Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > While I’ll agree that the focus on Palin’s looks were partly caused by her being female, Kagan’s a different story. She is so far on the left of the attractiveness bell curve that this is something statistically noteworthy. When New Jersey elected an [man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_christie) who is equally unusually fat, that was made a big deal of and that equally made sense. > > So yes, it is possible that women are unusually judged by their looks. No, that is not what’s causing the Kagan comments now. Of course, the SCOTUS has never been much of a beauty pageant anyway. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/60 "2010-05-11T03:03:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course, the SCOTUS has never been much of a beauty pageant anyway. Oh I disagree. [This look is pretty fab.](http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/rehnquist.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913.md?page=4)