# Why all the focus on Kagan's looks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913 "2010-05-10T14:33:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/61 "2010-05-11T03:18:19Z")
US Supreme Court ladies [are allowed some flair.](http://online.wsj.com/media/0929pod07.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/62 "2010-05-11T03:22:27Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > While I’ll agree that the focus on Palin’s looks were partly caused by her being female, Kagan’s a different story. She is so far on the left of the attractiveness bell curve that this is something statistically noteworthy. For a middle-aged academic/politician? I definitely don’t think Kagan’s pretty or slender, but looking at [various pictures of her](http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=elena+kagan), I simply can’t see what’s considered so remarkably hideous about her. New Jersey’s Chris Christie may have been called fat, and he is, but that’s not the same as calling him “butt-ugly” or “so far to the left of the attractiveness bell curve that this is something statistically noteworthy”. Unattractive men in public life simply don’t get judged on their looks anywhere near as viciously or persistently as unattractive women do. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/63 "2010-05-11T03:34:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > New Jersey’s Chris Christie may have been called fat, and he is, but that’s not the same as calling him “butt-ugly” or “so far to the left of the attractiveness bell curve that this is something statistically noteworthy”. Unattractive men in public life simply don’t get judged on their looks anywhere near as viciously or persistently as unattractive women do. [Oh yes?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrIwT08tqQA) ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/64 "2010-05-11T03:51:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > For a middle-aged academic/politician? I definitely don’t think Kagan’s pretty or slender, but looking at [various pictures of her](http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=elena+kagan), I simply can’t see what’s considered so remarkably hideous about her. Yea, she seems pretty average for a fifty something year-old woman. A little heavy, but at least in the US, so is the average 50 something year-old woman. She also seems to have lost weight, the pics of her at the Presser announcing her SCOTUS nomination have her looking less chubby then those of her during her nomination hearings for Solictor General (which I assume were a year or so ago). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/65 "2010-05-11T04:01:29Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Oh yes? Absolutely. The worst things that your linked video says about Chris Christie are that an attack ad by an opponent described him as “throwing his weight around”, and that he’s frequently described as fat. And if you google “Chris Christie fat”, you get the same sort of thing: articles and blogs discussing whether it’s okay for Christie’s opponent to slyly insinuate that he’s fat, and whether his being fat will affect his candidacy. Google “Elena Kagan ugly”, though, and you get thousands of messageboard posts directly calling her “ugly”, “hideously ugly”, “butt ugly”, “extraordinarily ugly”, “ugly as hell”, “ugly motherfucker”, “ugly man”, “fat ugly dyke”, and dozens more. The level of offensive personal insult in these two cases is simply not comparable. You have yet to come up with any evidence indicating that the public discourse about Chris Christie’s looks was even remotely as hostile and vicious as the discourse about Kagan’s looks is. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/66 "2010-05-11T04:38:31Z")
The headline writers at MSNBC [are trying to be clever](http://yfrog.com/j7httpwwwmsnbcmsnpage1j). (top right) ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/67 "2010-05-11T06:59:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Absolutely. The worst things that your linked video says about Chris Christie are that an attack ad by an opponent described him as “throwing his weight around”, and that he’s frequently described as fat. And if you google “Chris Christie fat”, you get the same sort of thing: articles and blogs discussing whether it’s okay for Christie’s opponent to slyly insinuate that he’s fat, and whether his being fat will affect his candidacy. > > Google “Elena Kagan ugly”, though, and you get thousands of messageboard posts directly calling her “ugly”, “hideously ugly”, “butt ugly”, “extraordinarily ugly”, “ugly as hell”, “ugly motherfucker”, “ugly man”, “fat ugly dyke”, and dozens more. > > The level of offensive personal insult in these two cases is simply not comparable. You have yet to come up with any evidence indicating that the public discourse about Chris Christie’s looks was even remotely as hostile and vicious as the discourse about Kagan’s looks is. Random posts on the Internet don’t really mean much and I have yet to see any discussion about Kagan’s looks in the MSM. And obviously her looks haven’t stopped her from having a very successful career. In any case men in public life are also judged by their looks. What are the chances of a short, fat, bald man being a serious contender for President? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/68 "2010-05-11T07:41:46Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Random posts on the Internet don’t really mean much and I have yet to see any discussion about Kagan’s looks in the MSM. And obviously her looks haven’t stopped her from having a very successful career. In any case men in public life are also judged by their looks. What are the chances of a short, fat, bald man being a serious contender for President? True dat! It’s about as likely as a black man becoming President. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/69 "2010-05-11T07:50:35Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > What are the chances of a short, fat, bald man being a serious contender for President? Is this what Dopers call a “woosh”? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/70 "2010-05-11T08:00:35Z")
> [@astro](#): > > In reading articles about Kagan’s nomination in many of the online “comment’s” sections below the article there is a steady stream of posters making snide comments on what a dog she is. This is kind of puzzling. > > She’s not a model, she’s a perfectly normal looking 50 year old woman. Maybe she’s a bit tubby, but she’s not some nether beast. Ok. She’s hot for a GILF, but how are her cake baking credentials and doesn’t she have some grandchildren and a husband to look after? > [@astro](#): > > [Apparently it’s the hair.](http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/post/445/is-elena-kagan-gay.html) She should have been living in the UK then. At least she could have worn a nice looking wig. Perhaps she can suggest this fine tradition is introduced in the colonies. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/71 "2010-05-11T08:18:07Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Is this what Dopers call a “woosh”? Well I don’t know. Are you trying to say being short, fat and bald wouldn’t be a serious disadvantage if you were running for President? If you look at US Presidents in the last 50 years, i.e. the TV age, I think it’s pretty clear that looks have played a role. Presidents tend to be taller than average. Not one of the Presidents has been fat or bald either. Even a beard appears to be a serious disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![panman\_1960](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@panman\_1960](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panman_1960)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/72 "2010-05-11T12:00:49Z")
The appointment to the Supreme Court should be based on qualifications, period. Unfortunately, being elected POTUS seems to be based on a number of other qualifications including looks. Ross Perot didn’t have looks or a soothing speaking voice, so no matter what you thought of his vision for the country, he didn’t have a chance. Appearance and oratory skills are neccessary for anyone in a prominent position. So what if Kagan is gay or looks like Kevin James, the opposition needs to focus on her qualifications if they wish to successfully shoot her down. Pot shots about her looks and orientation are easy and play to the base mentality of the public. Fortunately (or not) the public basically has no say in the selections for the Supreme Court. later, Tom. (Of course, I’ve never seen Kevin James or Kagan at a party together…) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/73 "2010-05-11T13:56:42Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Ok. She’s hot for a GILF, but how are her cake baking credentials and doesn’t she have some grandchildren and a husband to look after? And what is her recipe for chocolate-chip cookies? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/74 "2010-05-11T14:27:24Z")
No one objected to her looks when she co-starred with Matthew Broderick on Broadway. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/75 "2010-05-11T14:47:07Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > No one objected to her looks when she co-starred with Matthew Broderick on Broadway. Oh snap! ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/76 "2010-05-11T15:04:04Z")
Wasn’t Dwight D bald?? Well he was slightly before the television age. I don’t seem to remember anybody pointing out how ugly Sam Alito was during his nomination… dude looks like dracula… As for Condi…wasn’t the First Lady going to hook her up with a guy?? We use to laugh that Laura was trying to match up Condi to keep her away from W. As for Gov Christie… it does make me chuckle when i see a fat conservative… what about YOUR personal choices eh?? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/77 "2010-05-11T15:30:54Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > You clearly don’t go to church anywhere in the bible belt. 🙂 Houston, Texas, managed to elect a lesbian mayor last November; she’s in the [2010 Time 100](http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1984685_1984864_1985414,00.html). But I agree that women in politics get more attention for their looks than men do. Some will interpret her as seeming “lesbian.” Hasn’t anybody complained that she looks sort of “Jewish”? Or are they trying to hide their anti-Semitism? There have been [warnings](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2010/05/elena-kagan-supreme-court-jewish-catholic/1?csp=hf) about a new Oppressed Majority: > [@](#): > > And one evangelical law professor, Mark Scarberry at Pepperdine law school, raised the concern about the prospect of a Court with no Protestants. > > > [@](#): > > > > It does seem to me that when you have such a large part of the country that has a particular sort of religious worldview, if there is no one on the court who is able to understand that worldview in a sympathetic way, then that creates difficulties. Practically speaking, her looks won’t really matter unless the Supreme Court’s building needs upkeep & the justices decide to raise funds with a swimsuit calendar. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/78 "2010-05-11T15:42:52Z")
Tbh, if she is gay then it is relevant as there are many issues (gay marriage, religious freedom of expression etc) on which her lesbianism (is that a word?) would imply that she take a certain stand. Since she hasn’t been a judge before, and therefore has no written judgements, these kinds of factors are how people are going to work out what questions they will ask her during her hearings. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/79 "2010-05-11T15:54:08Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > Tbh, if she is gay then it is relevant as there are many issues (gay marriage, religious freedom of expression etc) on which her lesbianism (is that a word?) would imply that she take a certain stand. > Since she hasn’t been a judge before, and therefore has no written judgements, these kinds of factors are how people are going to work out what questions they will ask her during her hearings. I remember all the strenuous question to previous nominees as to how their straightness would affect their decision making. It’s just fair to reciprocate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913/80 "2010-05-11T16:31:19Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > Wasn’t Dwight D bald?? Well he was slightly before the television age. I don’t seem to remember anybody pointing out how ugly Sam Alito was during his nomination.. dude looks like dracula.. > As for Condi…wasn’t the First Lady going to hook her up with a guy?? We use to laugh that Laura was trying to match up Condi to keep her away from W. > As for Gov Christie.. it does make me chuckle when i see a fat conservative.. what about YOUR personal choices eh?? Bork cut quite a figure in his Senate hearings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-focus-on-kagans-looks/538913.md?page=5)