# Why all the hate for Independence Day? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730 "2011-05-04T18:46:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/61 "2011-05-05T17:11:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > At least they didn’t show Randy Quaid taking out the alien ship with a _biplane_, which was originally intended (cite: deleted scenes from the DVD). That actually might have helped. I can’t think of anything better to underscore the idea that this is not a movie to take seriously. 😛 Still, it could have been much better than it was. Emmerich was capable of it. Stargate wasn’t a whole lot better, but it hung together well enough to generate a respectable franchise of TV shows. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/62 "2011-05-05T17:37:35Z")
Early in the movie, when the Will Smith character was told that’d he’d never get into NASA if he marries a stripper it was clear that this was supposed to be an over-the-top romp. Nobody has yet mentioned the thing that seems the most odd about the picture, and that’s that the characters don’t seem to give the destruction of all of the world’s largest cities and millions of people’s deaths a moments thought. New York, LA, and Washington gone? Oh well. Houston blasted off the face of the earth? That’s the breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/63 "2011-05-05T19:28:16Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > \ The storytelling takes a firm backseat to the pursuit of spectacle.\ That’s a very good way of describing the problems I have with Hollywood’s version of science fiction. I want a good book turned into a good movie, not just a shoot-em-up movie with laser pistols and starship chase scenes (and lots of shit blowing up, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/64 "2011-05-05T19:33:40Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s a very good way of describing the problems I have with Hollywood’s version of science fiction. I want a good book turned into a good movie, not just a shoot-em-up movie with laser pistols and starship chase scenes (and lots of shit blowing up, of course). Thing is, what makes a good book doesn’t always make a good movie, and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/65 "2011-05-05T20:13:40Z")
When talking about a movie like this, I think you need to identify whether you saw it first in the theater or on tv. I find this movie unwatchable on tv (no matter how big the screen), but on opening weekend with the theater full of kids,your mouth full of overpriced popcorn and your feet sticking to the floor, it worked just fine. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/66 "2011-05-05T20:18:48Z")
ID is on my list of favorite movies. It’s a fun movie with a plot that keeps moving and a satisfying (yes, obvious) conclusion. How can you not like Randy Quaid (THE RANDY QUAID, Chevy Chase’s good-for-nothin’ cousin-in-law from all those Vacation movies) salvaging some self-respect at the end! On top of that, the First Lady later became President in BSG! Was the plot contrived and too predictable? Yep, but it was pure escapism. I had the DVD already, but immediately got the Blu-ray version when it became available. It’s a movie I can watch again and again. (The only other one is Groundhog Day :p.) I’ll even admit that I like its trite, but stirring sound track. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/67 "2011-05-05T20:30:41Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > Houston blasted off the face of the earth This would be the reason that I can’t really hate ID, for all its faults. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/68 "2011-05-05T20:37:57Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > My dislike for Independence Day is mostly due to expectations. It’s a completely stupid action movie with idiots for characters, mind boggling pretend “science”, hackneyed plotting, and more movie cliches than you can shake a stick at. But I was actually expecting a … well, a good movie. It wasn’t, in any way shape or form, a good movie. > > Had I gone in expecting the craptastic action flick it was, I wouldn’t dislike it as much as I do. But the buildup and the hype going into it, combined with my reluctance to read the actual reviews for fear of spoilers, helped make me livid after seeing it. ^^ This ^^ This. Was. Awful. When I saw Commando and Machete, we were expecting cliches out the ass. The Randy Quaid character was a dipshit. Anyone like him would’ve been one of the first to go, probably thinking that the spaceship was really a new, fangled Nissan. Maybe they’ll cast his same character in a Navy SEAL film about being in the bin Laden killing team. JUST as plausible. :rolleyes: I think the clincher as one of worst films ever goes to Bill Pullman as President. We don’t have presidents like him. CCIIW, but has there ever been a president who is willing to and able to jump in a cockpit and destroy something? Seriously. If Batman were president, he’d still be escorted down to the safety bunker whether he liked it or not. So you’re not too jolted, it’s still not as bad as Mars Attacks! or nearly as bad as Forrest Gump. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/69 "2011-05-05T20:55:46Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Right, but they blew up the mothership from the inside. They could just as easily have said “we need to blow up the mothership to disable their shields”. I thought about this one myself but I figured that that the mothership wasn’t enabling the smaller ships shields, they were perfectly capable of working independantly, the code was just to send the message for all the ships to drop their shields at the same time. Blowing up the mothership was the equivalent of taking out NORAD for America, they could still fight without it but would be noticably weakened. And its suggested that when Smith and Goldblums characters enter the mothership the aliens are preparing to launch a ground invasion. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I suspect a lot of the grief it gets is from True Believers getting tired of explaining why this isn’t “real” science fiction. I’m a science-fiction fan myself and as much as it would be nice to see a more weighty science-fiction story on the big screen I’d argue that Independence Day is perfectly entitled to cast itself as a science-fiction story. Personally I get more tired of attempting to explain to people that science-fiction does not equal Star Trek, of which I’m not a fan. And what annoys me even more is that film-makers have a tendency to treat science-fiction as a cross-over with the horror genre, note the recent movie Sunshine that had potential as a straight sci-fi film before descending into weird symbolism and shock-scenes. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Nobody has yet mentioned the thing that seems the most odd about the picture, and that’s that the characters don’t seem to give the destruction of all of the world’s largest cities and millions of people’s deaths a moments thought. > > New York, LA, and Washington gone? Oh well. Houston blasted off the face of the earth? That’s the breaks. Not really sure what the characters could really say, they were mostly just trying to stay alive and trying to find a means to fight back, Bill Pullmans character does berate the head-scientist at one point for taking events too lightly. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/70 "2011-05-05T20:59:07Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > I’m a science-fiction fan myself and as much as it would be nice to see a more weighty science-fiction story on the big screen I’d argue that Independence Day is perfectly entitled to cast itself as a science-fiction story. Personally I get more tired of attempting to explain to people that science-fiction does not equal Star Trek, of which I’m not a fan. And what annoys me even more is that film-makers have a tendency to treat science-fiction as a cross-over with the horror genre, note the recent movie Sunshine that had potential as a straight sci-fi film before descending into weird symbolism and shock-scenes. God, Sunshine was terrible. What a fucking horrible bait-and-switch. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/71 "2011-05-06T00:19:23Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Thing is, what makes a good book doesn’t always make a good movie, and vice versa. True enough. I just wish someone somewhere would make a better call on that then they currently are. I believe a good science fiction movie can make (almost) as much money as a spectacular (but weak on story) science fiction movie. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/72 "2011-05-06T02:52:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Ya know, I really hate this movie. It has one of the most hackneyed scripts I’ve ever seen. It has some of the worst character caricatures I’ve ever seen. I was going to use the word ‘cliche’ but ‘caricature’ is exactly to the point. There are so many bad points, but, the two that get me are 1. The President rolling up his sleeves, there’s life in me yet nonsense and 2. the Alien with the devil face…puh-leeze! I thought it was built up as a ‘good’ kind of action flick, and I was given a mindless event. Had I been prepared for it as such, I might not be bearing such resentment against them. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/73 "2011-05-06T03:21:24Z")
I didn’t know there was a lot of hate for the movie. I think it’s a very enjoyable movie. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/74 "2011-05-06T04:24:08Z")
There’s a lot of hate for everything. I love the movie, myself. It’s great, cheesy fun! ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/75 "2011-05-06T11:06:20Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > _Independence Day_ is a three- or four-star one-star movie in my book. It doesn’t aspire to be great filmmaking, but it’s a fun stupid movie full of aliens, explosions, and dumb jokes. For me, it’s a one star popcorn film, I’m not trying to compare it to _One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest_ or _The Godfather_. It’s not fluffy goodness, it’s like trying to eat a bag of kernels. My favourite popcorn films are _Star Wars_, _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, _X2_ and possibly _Serenity_. I’m really surprised anyone would put _Independence Day_ in the same bracket. Let’s Independence Day up a couple of these films a little, and see what happens. Star Wars: Forget that Jedi nonsense, Obi Wan Kenobi is the 438th and last president of the old republic, and can trace his line back all the way back to George Washington. > [@Obi Wan Kenobi](#): > > In the time of the old republic a man could not tell a lie, even if he had cut down a tree he should not have. Raiders of the Lost Ark: After the Nazis open the ark, a battle erupts between the angels and the stormtroopers. Initially the angels are on top, but the stormtroopers fight back with an MG42, sub-machine guns and hand grenades, killing several. Belloq prepares an explosive device, intending to throw it into the ark to kill God. Suddenly, a squad of US rangers appears on the scene. They kill the MG42 crew, free Indy and Marion, and join the battle in earnest. Indy shoots Major Toht, who topples into the open ark. Marion punches out Belloq. With the battle won, Indy and Azrael solemnly exchange salutes. As he is led away, Belloq promises Indy that he hasn’t seen the last of him. I’m venting here, which is mildly cathartic, but I don’t think I’m being unfair. It’s the combination of clumsy storytelling, shallow characters I don’t give a damn about and “rah USA!” attitude I found particularly annoying. A good popcorn film is an immersive experience, you are taken for a ride and don’t want to get off until the end. > [@JohnT](#): > > At least they didn’t show Randy Quaid taking out the alien ship with a _biplane_, which was originally intended (cite: deleted scenes from the DVD). Well, it would no more silly than many things that actually happened in the film. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/76 "2011-05-06T17:31:01Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > \ > I’m venting here, which is mildly cathartic, but I don’t think I’m being unfair. It’s the combination of clumsy storytelling, shallow characters I don’t give a damn about and “rah USA!” attitude I found particularly annoying. A good popcorn film is an immersive experience, you are taken for a ride and don’t want to get off until the end.\ Yeah! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/77 "2011-05-06T20:55:59Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Thing is, what makes a good book doesn’t always make a good movie, and vice versa. This. I’d add that the things I enjoy in movies do not translate well to film, which is why I decline to watch movies based on books I love. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/78 "2011-05-08T11:46:33Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > True enough. I just wish someone somewhere would make a better call on that then they currently are. I believe a good science fiction movie can make (almost) as much money as a spectacular (but weak on story) science fiction movie. Is there anything in particular you’d like to see filmed? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/79 "2011-05-09T15:24:50Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Sure, its a little silly in places _(the reluctance to use nukes for example and not using nuclear weapons on the ships when their shields were down instead of air-to-air missiles which would be like expecting to sink an aircraft carrier with a hand-grenade)_ IMHO they didn’t need _nukes_ once the shields were down – too much collateral damage – but I didn’t understand the use of tiny air-to-air missiles. A big load of 2,000-pound bombs dropped from altitude would have worked fine. Or a wave of Tomahawk or Harpoon anti-ship missiles. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730/80 "2011-05-09T15:35:27Z")
But then the President would have been relegated to saying, “Fire”, instead of flying around shooting down EVELLL aliens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hate-for-independence-day/580730.md?page=5)