# Why all the hostility toward looking nice?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [December 19, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367 "2005-12-19T23:31:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/21 "2005-12-20T01:10:23Z")
that $500 dollar suit is also an impractical and illogical use of resources…
$500 could buy more important stuff…like food, or medicine, or computer hardware ;), you know, stuff that’s actually _useful_ and not a bunch of useless cosmetic frippery that screams “look how much money i have to spend on useless stuff!”
yes, to be fair, computer hardware could also qualify under that category, but if forced to choose between a $500 suit and a $500 video card for my computer (as an example), i’d get a lot more use out of the vidcard…those aliens don’t shoot themselves, you kknow, _somebody_ has to do it… 😉
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### Author:  [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/22 "2005-12-20T01:10:34Z")
> [@Cunctator](#):
>
> What intrigues me is the view that “good dress up” clothing and “comfortable” clothing are somehow mutually exclusive. I’d generally say that the better the clothes, the more comfortable they are.
**Cunctator** , what do you consider good dress up clothing? For me, it consists of a suit and tie, shirt (possibly starched), socks, and shoes. Dress socks offer no cushion effect, nor are male dress shoes particularly well known for being both comfortable and meeting the approval of the fashion police. (Of course I know men’s shoes are less torturous than women’s shoes - but that just reinforces my prejudice.) Then there’s that degenerate sash that we call the tie. Bah. I hate that. I always notice it… and feel as though it constricts my breathing. It doesn’t help that I have an incredibly outsized neck, so buttoning a collar can be a major endevour.
Then the whole coat thing is always either too many layers of clothing for the weather, or too few.
BTW, **davenportavenger** and **Martin Hyde** , may I suggest, in an effort to short stop hatred and animosity the three of us stop trying to change the other’s view? I don’t think anything good can come of continuing this argument between us.
On preview, it seems I’m too late. Oh, well. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/23 "2005-12-20T01:10:55Z")
> [@Cunctator](#):
>
> What intrigues me is the view that “good dress up” clothing and “comfortable” clothing are somehow mutually exclusive. I’d generally say that the better the clothes, the more comfortable they are.
Yeah, most people (here) probably don’t have much experience with clothing that has been made by a tailor and custom-fitted to their dimensions. A suit off the rack with a neck tie can be pretty uncomfortable, too baggy in some areas, too tight in others, too short in some areas, too long in others.
I will say a lot of people may not be comfortable even in a fitted suit, but I’m willing to bet they will be a lot more comfortable than they were in an ill-fitting suit bought off the rack.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/24 "2005-12-20T01:12:20Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Most people that sit back and criticize “elitism” do so out of jealousy and dispair concerning their own situation, and it is born out of one being not quite in line with mainstream society.
This is a poorly veiled (and spelled) insult. It is also wrong. Most people that criticize elitism are themselves elites (which makes them hypocrites, but doesn’t make them wrong).
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> There’s a certain subset of the population that seems to believe being intentionally contrarian to mainstream society is a virtue in and of itself.
I agree with you here. And there are those that believe that conformity is a virtue in and of itself.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/25 "2005-12-20T01:12:31Z")
> [@MacTech](#):
>
> that $500 dollar suit is also an impractical and illogical use of resources…
>
> $500 could buy more important stuff…like food, or medicine, or computer hardware ;), you know, stuff that’s actually _useful_ and not a bunch of useless cosmetic frippery that screams “look how much money i have to spend on useless stuff!”
>
> yes, to be fair, computer hardware could also qualify under that category, but if forced to choose between a $500 suit and a $500 video card for my computer (as an example), i’d get a lot more use out of the vidcard…those aliens don’t shoot themselves, you kknow, _somebody_ has to do it… 😉
As an entrepeneur I think I get more money out of looking nice and impressing clients than I would out of a new video card for my gaming machine (as it is, I buy both, but I consider my business attire more of a work necessity and the video card a luxury.)
To be honest if I showed up at a meeting with someone I was doing business with dressed like some hobo off the street, I can guarantee you I’d be hurting myself financially.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/26 "2005-12-20T01:14:17Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#):
>
> This is a poorly veiled (and spelled) insult. It is also wrong. Most people that criticize elitism are themselves elites (which makes them hypocrites, but doesn’t make them wrong).
You’re going to call me out for misspelling the word despair? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/27 "2005-12-20T01:15:42Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> You’re going to call me out for misspelling the word despair? :rolleyes:
When you’re in the midst of insulting someone for not having enough class? Absolutely (if parenthetically).
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/28 "2005-12-20T01:17:05Z")
Well that is your prerogative but spelling, especially of a message board post that hasn’t been proof read isn’t really indicative of anything other than lack of desire to proof read posts in a highly informal setting.
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/29 "2005-12-20T01:18:05Z")
I’m kinda old-fashioned . . . I was raised to believe that looking your best was a kind of public service, a way of saying “I care enough about you to be well-groomed and well-dressed.” The world’s ugly enough without adding to it. Dressing like a slob is akin to letting your house fall to pieces and putting a truck on cement blocks in the front yard.
As far as what some others have said here, I am _not_ pretty. I am a hatchet-face, middle-aged woman, 25 pounds overweight. Which makes it even more important that I am well-dressed and that my hair and makeup are perfect. I do not go around dressed up like Mrs. Drysdale. My look is “sweater and skirt,” and it’s not expensive (thank you, Lands’ End!).
That having been said, I am not, tragically, the Fashion Police. You wanna look like you got dressed in a burning building, knock yerself out, I’ll just look better in comparison.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/30 "2005-12-20T01:23:01Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Well that is your prerogative but spelling, especially of a message board post that hasn’t been proof read isn’t really indicative of anything other than lack of desire to proof read posts in a highly informal setting.
Well \*that \*is your prerogative, but how one dresses, especially in a grocery store or in one’s car, isn’t really indicative of anything other than lack of desire to impress shallow people.
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### Author:  [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/31 "2005-12-20T01:23:35Z")
Can’t we all agree to disagree here… the “dressy” people will never convince the “casual” people, and vice-versa, can’t we all get back to sniping at Bush…
I keed, i keed, there’s enough Bush-sniping going on here to start another forum category…
…and “Bush Snipe” would make a _great_ name for a band… 😉
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/32 "2005-12-20T01:26:44Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#):
>
> Well \*that \*is your prerogative, but how one dresses, especially in a grocery store or in one’s car, isn’t really indicative of anything other than lack of desire to impress shallow people.
I’ve gone gorcery shopping in a track suit, as well as in shorts and a tank-top.
I’m not saying you need to slap on a suit and tie or even something more formal for everything you do.
I just think one needs to dress nice in the situations that call for it, in some situations it would be inappropriate. For example it wouldn’t be appropriate to wear a suit to work if you were a mechanic.
Part of maturity is being able to dress appropriately for certain events.
I do think that while doing some daily chores (grocery shopping for example) or heading to the gym and such there’s no reason to dress up. I think if you’re going out to eat or anything like that, you shouldn’t do so in a pair of sweats.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/33 "2005-12-20T01:27:58Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#):
>
> Well \*that \*is your prerogative, but how one dresses, especially in a grocery store or in one’s car, isn’t really indicative of anything other than lack of desire to impress shallow people.
Sorry to double reply.
But I thought we were talking about people who are “hostile” towards looking nice, or people who “refuse to put any effort into their appearance” ala what the OP said.
I didn’t think we were talking about strictly conforming to a dress code in ALL day-to-day interactions.
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### Author:  [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/34 "2005-12-20T01:29:29Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Most people that sit back and criticize “elitism” do so out of jealousy and dispair concerning their own situation, and it is born out of one being not quite in line with mainstream society.
A wonderfully bullet-proof position. If one tries to argue it, obviously one is jealous, in dispair, and not quite in line with mainstream society.
Nice.
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### Author:  [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/35 "2005-12-20T01:30:30Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Part of maturity is being able to dress appropriately for certain events.
At the same time, this is exactly right.
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### Author:  [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/36 "2005-12-20T01:35:16Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#):
>
> **Cunctator** , what do you consider good dress up clothing?
A good suit, or well-cut, good quality casual clothes. They always fit much better and are therefore, to my mind, more “comfortable” than any cheap, ill-fitting stuff. It’s the same with shoes. I’d rather have a couple of pairs of good quality shoes than half a dozen pairs of cheap ones. The good quality ones are always more comfortable.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/37 "2005-12-20T01:35:16Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Sorry to double reply.
>
> But I thought we were talking about people who are “hostile” towards looking nice, or people who “refuse to put any effort into their appearance” ala what the OP said.
>
> I didn’t think we were talking about strictly conforming to a dress code in ALL day-to-day interactions.
Well, the OP criticizes those that don’t dress up for the grocery store, as well as those that are hostile towards looking nice. I object to the first criticism, and you apparently agree. On the second, I disagree with the characterization of the hostility. I don’t think it comes from jealousy, or marginalization, as you think. I think it comes from unhappiness with a society that is so shallow as to judge people based on the clothes they wear.
Do I think one should wear nice clothing to a wedding, or a nice dinner? Yes. But, not for the reasons you and OP outline, and I sympathize with those who feel that “dressing nice” is just a euphemism for conspicuous consumption via fashion.
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### Author:  [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/38 "2005-12-20T01:36:23Z")
“Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski! Condolences; The bums lost…The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?”
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/39 "2005-12-20T01:38:18Z")
> [@Rodd Hill](#):
>
> “Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski! Condolences; The bums lost…The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?”
Yeah, maybe I’m just more a Lebowski than…uh, a Lebowski.
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/40 "2005-12-20T01:40:49Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#):
>
> I think it comes from unhappiness with a society that is so shallow as to judge people based on the clothes they wear.
I’m very happy with a society that judges people based on the clothes they wear. If I see one woman at the Shop Rite in a nice, clean T-shirt and plain khaki skirt, say; and another in a rhinestone-spangled tank top that says “Classy Lady” and sweatshorts with the crotch somewhere down by her knees . . . Well, damn _right_ I’m judging them.
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