# Why all the hostility toward looking nice?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [December 19, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367 "2005-12-19T23:31:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/41 "2005-12-20T01:41:50Z")
> [@Necros](#):
>
> I like to dress up. I think it’s fun. I have a lot of nice clothes.
Well, that’s it then. Personally, I neither like it, nor think it’s fun.
That’s not to say that I do not own any nice clothes, nor that I don’t dress for the occasion. However, it is _never_ something I enjoy.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/42 "2005-12-20T01:44:40Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> I’m very happy with a society that judges people based on the clothes they wear. If I see one woman at the Shop Rite in a nice, clean T-shirt and plain khaki skirt, say; and another in a rhinestone-spangled tank top that says “Classy Lady” and sweatshorts with the crotch somewhere down by her knees . . . Well, damn _right_ I’m judging them.
Right. And I’m saying that, in most cases, that is a shallow judgement.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/43 "2005-12-20T01:51:34Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#):
>
> Right. And I’m saying that, in most cases, that is a shallow judgement.
I’d disagree.
Most of the time if someone dresses like a slut, well, we all know what we can generalize from that.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/44 "2005-12-20T01:55:01Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Most of the time if someone dresses like a slut, well, we all know what we can generalize from that.
Heh, we’ll see if Eve agrees with that.
What people wear is dependent on a lot of factors: income, family background, education, geographic location, ethnic background, body type, medical conditions (maternity, allergies, etc.). The way people dress is more closely correlated with their subculture than with any part of their personal character. If you’ve ever lived in more than one place, you know that the way different groups wear make-up, the kind of clothes they wear, etc., varies much more among groups than within them–so it is more rational to conclude that it is not a marker of individuals, but of the groups to which they belong. It is both arrogant and foolish to judge someone you’ve never met based on the clothing they are wearing.
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/45 "2005-12-20T02:01:18Z")
For myself, it’s all about practicality. Six months out of the year, anything but hiking shoes or hiking boots and jeans are impractical. It’s accepted up here, at altitude. So, when I do need to get dressed up, it’s usually something I am completely out of place and uncomfortable in. A nice shirt and clean jeans are typically acceptable for a wedding. But I will usually drag out the suit coat and dress pants and try not to destroy them.
I wore jeans today to work, just like every day. Plowing the drive tonight, I threw on some gators for the deep snow over my boots and jumped into my 30 year old plow truck. I can wear the same jeans to work tomorrow. Putting on dress clothes is very alien to me, and a lot of people. I have very few dress clothes because I don’t need them, and can’t really use them except for very special occasions. They are a PITA to pack, and I can’t imagine taking them on a tropical cruise.
I remember, years ago, my brother and I went out with two girl friends. Very casual. But one girl had just bought new boots…
And asked to be carried to the car because she was afraid a bit of slush and snow would ruin her ‘boots’.
I do believe in being clean, and only wear sweat pants at home, before getting in the shower. I would never go out in them. And don’t wear them around the house. I’m not comfortable in ‘em. They are OK on a Saturday morning when the house is 60 degrees and I have yet to jump in the shower. After that, I wear jeans. I hate not feeling ready. And dress clothes or sweat pants make me feel like I’m gonna have to change if I need to do anything. Sweat pant’s make me fell like I never really got out of bed, and dress clothes make me want to stand in a corner and not wrinkle anything.
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### Author:  [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/46 "2005-12-20T02:18:23Z")
Well, I like to dress up. I like to have and get new clothes, and I love a formal occasion - so that’s where I’m coming from.
So - the only thing that I really can’t get my head around is when people wear clothing out of the house that isn’t _clean_. Fine - you’re running to the store to grab a few groceries and you want to wear sweats - fill your boots. But would it kill you to put on clean sweats, 'cus I really don’t want to look at what you ate for dinner last night all over the front of you. Does this make me petty and shallow? Probably. I can live with that.
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/47 "2005-12-20T02:20:25Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#):
>
> It is both arrogant and foolish to judge someone you’ve never met based on the clothing they are wearing.
Shallow? Arrogant? Foolish? Perhaps. But also damned accurate.
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### Author:  [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/48 "2005-12-20T02:21:44Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> I’d disagree.
>
> Most of the time if someone dresses like a slut, well, we all know what we can generalize from that.
She was askin’ for it!
Whatever.
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### Author:  [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/49 "2005-12-20T02:29:49Z")
> [@NicePete](#):
>
> She was askin’ for it!
>
> Whatever.
I dont’ think **Martin** was saying that at all. I think he was suggesting that a woman who presents herself in a slovenly, slutty fashion is doing herself a disservice if only because she’s sending a message that she probably doesn’t want to send. I think if you look cheap and easy, you attract a totally different kind of attention than if you don’t, and I don’t think it’s the kind of attention that most women want to attract. (And no, I’m not talking about nutters in shruberies jumping out and attcking women in miniskirts - I’m thinking more along the lines of men not providing the level of respect that women deserve.)
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/50 "2005-12-20T02:37:17Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> Shallow? Arrogant? Foolish? Perhaps. But also damned accurate.
Accurate at what? Judging the character of a person? Please. You really believe that?
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#):
>
> I dont’ think Martin was saying that at all. I think he was suggesting that a woman who presents herself in a slovenly, slutty fashion is doing herself a disservice if only because she’s sending a message that she probably doesn’t want to send. I think if you look cheap and easy, you attract a totally different kind of attention than if you don’t, and I don’t think it’s the kind of attention that most women want to attract. (And no, I’m not talking about nutters in shruberies jumping out and attcking women in miniskirts - I’m thinking more along the lines of men not providing the level of respect that women deserve.)
This is a deeply charitable and tortured interpretation of what Martin said. He clearly meant if you dress in a way that he considers to be slutty, you are most likely a slut.
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### Author:  [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/51 "2005-12-20T02:46:38Z")
People, come on, do you not remember getting dressed up by your parents for some stuffy adult event when you were little? To a child the term ‘dress clothes’ usually equals a dearth of happy fun play time. Dressy clothes were stiff and scratchy and the shoes rarely fit right and you could never _ever_ run and jump and play when you were dressed **nice**. No tree-climbing or playing race cars on the floor or anything that might muss up the good clothes.
Most kids hate getting all gussied up and the behavior restrictions that accompany it. We were all kids once, therefore, a good percentage of us are living out the dream of ‘Well, when _I_ grow up, I’m never ever going to wear anything I don’t wanna!’ 😛
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/52 "2005-12-20T03:25:51Z")
> [@Necros](#):
>
> Inpired somewhat by this thread:
> [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=350218](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=350218)
> Maybe I sound like a curmudgeon; I’m not. I’m 31. Dopers, what say you? Am I being silly to suppose that dressing nice is an OK thing to do?
Oh, you and your gabardine-encrusted epaulets! You and your ritzy pince-nez opera glasses! You and your recherche fleur de lis-patterned ascots! You and your onyx-encrusted, cloisonned cufflinks! You and your walrus-hide spats!
Let me tell you about how a REAL MAN dresses! A REAL MAN isn’t afraid to go out on the town looking like he spend the night sleeping under a rock after an evening of rough sex with an enraged marmot! A REAL MAN is not afraid to be seen in public wearing only a (hopefully) mud-stained burlap thong! A REAL MAN is comfortable in whatever he can get on his body before it runs away!
I hope I have made myself clear.
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### Author:  [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/53 "2005-12-20T03:27:17Z")
Like it or not, people are judging people by what they wear. And I don’t think it it’s a delibrate judgement - it might be something automatic, in our sub-consciousness. Why do news presenters wear so formally? So that they would be taken seriously by others. Why do bank tellers, hotel services and other form of service industries take their attire seriously? So that they can appear professional. This is not actually a ‘judgement’ per se, but a ‘first impression’.
Then again, I am against formal dress for events which don’t need it, or when it is unnecessary and people makes a big deal out of it. For instance, I know of a typical software developer who insists everyone to dress formally. What for? Those people are going to be in front of the monitor all day long, and wouldn’t see a single client.
At any rate, I am the sort who looks bad in whatever I wear, so I usually just try to make myself presentable, and that’s that.
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### Author:  [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/54 "2005-12-20T03:31:33Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#):
>
> He clearly meant if you dress in a way that he considers to be slutty, you are most likely a slut.
I believe is was the great and wise Dave Chappelle that said (paraphrased from memory) you may not be a whore, but you’re wearing a whore’s uniform.
And while Martin may not always phrase things in a tactful manner, this…
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Part of maturity is being able to dress appropriately for certain events.
…is something with which I can agree.
I don’t own many five hundred dollar dresses, but I do maintain a closet with the appropriate articles of clothing for formal events. You don’t have to be an independently wealthy entrepreneur to afford good clothing, nor do you have to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth in order to be intelligent enough to move smoothly in more formal social circles. You just have to be willing to make the effort. Some people are not willing to make that effort. Fair enough, but please recognize there are some places\* that you just shouldn’t go wearing sweats or jeans, or if you do wear sweats or jeans to these places people will assume you are:
A)Lost
or
B)Ignorant
I’m not saying those assumptions are correct, only that they will be made.
\*the Symphony, a Charity Fund Raiser Ball, the Governor’s Holiday Gala, etc.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/55 "2005-12-20T05:23:13Z")
Dressing up doesn’t HAVE to be expensive-if you’re willing to spend time looking, you can find some amazing bargains. My sister used to have a part time job at the local Salvation Army store and she found some really great, hardly worn clothing at a fraction of the cost.
Maybe not formal wear, but the best time is to check the department stores right AFTER prom season, and look at the clearance racks. You’d be amazed at what you can find.
I for one LOVE to dress up and wish I had the money and opportunities to do so. I’d probably wear nothing but formal wear if I could get away with it.
(I think I was one of those high society women in a past life, who changed clothing seven times per day).
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/56 "2005-12-20T05:52:34Z")
Like I mentioned in another thread, I actively avoid overdressed women. It is an effective chaff seperator. It keeps us seperated, probably to both of our advantages and preferences. I know when I am outclassed…and I mean that in a Marxist way.
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### Author:  [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/57 "2005-12-20T08:17:26Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#):
>
> Most people in my social crowd honestly don’t sweat 500 dollars for a piece of formal wear.
Well, bully for you. Around these parts, $500 is a lot of folk’s monthly mortgage payment.
That bit of classism aside, yes, it is possible as others have pointed out to have a few “dressy” affordable garments for those weddings, funerals, etc. in the back of the closet.
My view is: if my clothes are clean, if ugly body parts are not hanging out, if my hair is clean and I have a minimum of makeup on, well, then I can go to Kroger. But please don’t look down on me if I don’t starch my khakis before taking Junior to the playground. 😉
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### Author:  [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/58 "2005-12-20T09:53:15Z")
I’m glad you started this thread. Every time I wear something other than jeans, my family members ask in a snide tone, “What are you so dressed up for?” I’m sick of it.
Many people here claim that people who care about dressing well are judgmental. Many of these same people then turn around and judge people who do care about dressing well as shallow, self-absorbed, and wasteful. This too is often an inaccurate judgment. Furthermore, at least the people who look down on the badly dressed usually do it behind their backs. The fashion police who look down on the well-dressed seem to think it’s OK to make rude comments directly to the person.
I dress a certain way because I feel it reflects my personality, my taste, and in some cases, my hobbies (antique jewelry). At least half the women I know would say the same thing. A handful of men I know dress a certain way for this reason. We are trying to convey something about ourselves through our style of dress.
The assumption that a $500 suit is a waste is flat-out wrong. Purchasing more expensive clothing is often a wise investment that has nothing to do with showing off. I bought two $500 suits when I started law school. Both were simple, but very well-made. Five years later, I am still wearing them, and they still look very nice because I take care of them. I bought less expensive items along the way that became worn out and not fit for office wear within a year. Over time, they’ve proved to be the cheapest item in my wardrobe.
I think the assumption that expensive formal wear is typically worn only once is out of left field. People who buy formal wear usually use it over and over again. That’s why my dad bought a tux; he was required to go to black tie events repeatedly for work. I don’t know any woman who wears an expensive dress to one event. Even the well-off clotheshorse lawyers.
It seems to me, judging from this thread, that the haters of dressing well are just as much on their high horses as the haters of dressing down.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/59 "2005-12-20T09:59:02Z")
> [@FaerieBeth](#):
>
> I don’t own many five hundred dollar dresses, but I do maintain a closet with the appropriate articles of clothing for formal events. You don’t have to be an independently wealthy entrepreneur to afford good clothing,
I agree, most of my t-shirts were less than fifteen dollars. I’ve rarely paid more than twenty dollars for sneakers.
But, you didn’t mean “good” did you? You meant formal. Why is formal clothing good and casual clothing not?
> [@](#):
>
> nor do you have to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth in order to be intelligent enough to move smoothly in more formal social circles.
A formal social circle is nothing I want to move in. My intelligence (or the implied lack thereof) has nothing to do with it.
> [@](#):
>
> You just have to be willing to make the effort. Some people are not willing to make that effort.
For such things as weddings, baptisms, funerals, bar mitzvahs, I will wear formal clothing.
I have never owned formal clothing that was comfortable. I dislike formalwear immensely. I am willing to put up with it as an expression of my feeling for the people being married, buried, circumcised etc.
> [@](#):
>
> Fair enough, but please recognize there are some places\* that you just shouldn’t go wearing sweats or jeans, or if you do wear sweats or jeans to these places people will assume you are:
> A)Lost
> or
> B)Ignorant
> I’m not saying those assumptions are correct, only that they will be made.
>
> \*the Symphony, a Charity Fund Raiser Ball, the Governor’s Holiday Gala, etc.
I don’t care what assumptions strangers make about me.
If a place will admit me in jeans and a t-shirt, that’s what I’ll wear. I see no reason whatsoever not to wear just that to a night at the symphony. I would be there to hear the musicians. They would be unable to see my clothing.
I don’t care what strangers think of me. Unless you are a woman I am about to ask out, or a business associate, I don’t give a damn what you think of me (so long as you do not call the police to have me arrested or begin an investigation of me). No woman I could ever have a future with would be put off by jeans and a t-shirt.
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### Author:  [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2005, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-hostility-toward-looking-nice/336367/60 "2005-12-20T10:08:02Z")
Well, blah, blah, blah, To those of you who dress formally for not much money. Martin and his ilk spend their time ridiculing you for not being able to afford their level of crap. You are not impressing anyone more than I am.
If you want to dress that way because it’s fun for you, then go ahead, that’s cool. But have you ever said to yourself " I’ll go in this one, but God I wish I could could afford to by that?" Was it out of true appreciation for the craftsman hip of that one, or because you wanted to see people know bought that one. Have you ever felt bad about what you wanted to wear somewhere, or felt bad about what you could afford to buy your kid for prom or wedding or a dance?
Then join my mindset, don’t let the elitist bastards run the world. For me it’s a self-actualizing shibboleth. The snobs who don’t think you are worth talking to because of the clothes you wear are snobs who arn’t worth talking to, so it works it self out.
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