# Why all the inter-service bickering over proprietary camo designs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749 "2011-06-08T15:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/1 "2011-06-08T15:39:36Z")
> **[Army Backs Off Talk of Using Marine Camouflage Pattern](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/army-backs-off-talk-of-using-marine-camouflage-pattern)** > > The Army claimed Tuesday that it's not looking to swipe the Marines' combat uniform, after a top official said in an interview that the branch might just use the same design over the Corps' objections.  > [@](#): > > The Army is weighing different camouflage patterns as it moves to select a new set of uniforms. The older Universal Camouflage Pattern has been criticized as ineffective, and some soldiers see the Marine Corps’ MARPAT (Marine Pattern) as vastly superior. > > _snip_ > > If they stay away from MARPAT, this would avoid a clash over colors with the Marines Corps. Last year, Marine Sgt. Maj. Carlton Kent said the MARPAT design is “proprietary.” Shouldn’t the services pick what works the best? Even if it means that different branches use the same pattern? The purpose of the camo is not to provide distinguishing color patterns for the different branches of the service, it is to provide camoflage from the enemy. Why should the government spend who knows how much money to find a different camo pattern for the army, when the marines already have one that appears to be superior? Proprietary my ass, they all work for us. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/2 "2011-06-08T16:35:35Z")
Well for one thing, the various branches of service already have different uniforms, so having different battle dress is just an extension of that. Another thing is that the services have differing requirements for their uniforms- the Marines are going for the best camo possible in the given situation, while the Army wants to issue one camo for everything (although they’re now issuing Multicam instead of ACUPAT in Afghanistan, I believe). The Navy’s big concern is camouflaging grease and crud stains on the utility uniforms, and the USAF wants to look a little different. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/3 "2011-06-08T17:05:58Z")
Why does the air force need camouflage at all? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/4 "2011-06-08T17:32:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why does the air force need camouflage at all? 😕 It’s useful when they send teams through the Stargate to potentially hostile worlds. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/5 "2011-06-08T17:37:34Z")
Each service wants control over it’s uniform requirements. For example, the Navy may want to focus it’s attention on fire retardant properties of a uniform. The Army and Marines may want something durable and comfortable for the foot soldiers, who may have to wear it for a more than one day on patrol in high heat or humidity. If the Navy was forced to use the same uniform (even if a different color), then the Navy couldn’t change priorities or requirements in the future without the Army agreeing to the changes. (And vice verse.) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/6 "2011-06-08T19:58:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why does the air force need camouflage at all? 😕 Parachute out of shot down plane into enemy territory, and a bright orange jumpsuit, isn’t going to be all that handy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/7 "2011-06-08T20:59:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Each service wants control over it’s uniform requirements. For example, the Navy may want to focus it’s attention on fire retardant properties of a uniform. > > The Army and Marines may want something durable and comfortable for the foot soldiers, who may have to wear it for a more than one day on patrol in high heat or humidity. > > If the Navy was forced to use the same uniform (even if a different color), then the Navy couldn’t change priorities or requirements in the future without the Army agreeing to the changes. (And vice verse.) Yes, but none of that is relevant to the pattern of colors. You could print a MARPAT pattern on cloth designed to be fire-resistant, or comfortable for extended wear, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/8 "2011-06-08T21:34:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, but none of that is relevant to the pattern of colors. You could print a MARPAT pattern on cloth designed to be fire-resistant, or comfortable for extended wear, or whatever. Exactly! But since the Marine Corps is claiming that MARPAT is proprietary, the Army will hire some consultant and spend too much money to have their own cammo pattern designed. I have no idea how much will be wasted here on this individual issue, but it’s the mindset that permeates our military and other areas of the government that are extremely redundant and wasteful. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/9 "2011-06-08T21:41:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why does the air force need camouflage at all? 😕 The Air Force does have fighting men who drop into war zones to engage the enemy. I don’t mean pilots but men with rifles on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/10 "2011-06-08T21:42:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, but none of that is relevant to the pattern of colors. You could print a MARPAT pattern on cloth designed to be fire-resistant, or comfortable for extended wear, or whatever. Yes. I see that now. I misunderstood the Marine Corp’s objection. “Those Army posers want to masquerade as Marines.” is the real one. 😃 I thought it was over consolidating vendors, or some such. I officially apologise… I got hacked by Breitbart. The dog ate my research. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/11 "2011-06-08T22:22:14Z")
Say what else you wil about MacNamara as SecDef, he did cut through a lot of this inter-service BS, and tried to streamline the services to eliminate redundancy on these kinds of issues. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/12 "2011-06-08T22:40:36Z")
Update - the Army has tentatively decided on a new proprietary pattern, shown in an artist’s rendering [here.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fHBzsquBHVw/TXZwabHEAoI/AAAAAAAABzQ/l-eH8Gc4-vM/s1600/Landsknechts_01.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/13 "2011-06-08T22:42:32Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Parachute out of shot down plane into enemy territory, and a bright orange jumpsuit, isn’t going to be all that handy. Sure, but Air Force flight suits are mostly (all?) [green-grey](http://www.kellycrouch.com/assets/images/Luke_flight_suit.jpg). > [@Odesio](#): > > The Air Force does have fighting men who drop into war zones to engage the enemy. I don’t mean pilots but men with rifles on the ground. Okay, that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/14 "2011-06-09T00:10:54Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Update - the Army has tentatively decided on a new proprietary pattern, shown in an artist’s rendering [here.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fHBzsquBHVw/TXZwabHEAoI/AAAAAAAABzQ/l-eH8Gc4-vM/s1600/Landsknechts_01.jpg) I think it would be great to bring back the Zouave uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-inter-service-bickering-over-proprietary-camo-designs/584749/15 "2011-06-09T01:07:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why does the air force need camouflage at all? 😕 To provide a contrasting background for the mandatory reflective belts.