# Why all the love for business figures who effectively won the lottery? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167 "2011-09-30T15:52:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/21 "2011-09-30T19:47:19Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Then by all means, set me straight. > > Iacocca undoubtedly had strengths, talents and virtues- complete idiots don’t get to be CEOs of major corporations. And given the state of the world and the auto biz in the Seventies, even an utterly brilliant man would have had a hard time. > > Even so, whether it was his fault or not, Chrysler went to Hell during his term as the boss, and they didn’t START making great cars under his leadership. Maybe it took a phenomenal effort just to keep the company from collapsing entirely. > > I’d STILL say it takes some gall to write a self-aggrandizing autobiography when your company is still making mediocre cars, is still treading water financially, and would be history without a big govenment handout. 1. Chrysler was on the verge of bankruptcy before Iacocca arrived. They crashed and burned during the early and mid 70’s, and he took over in 78/79. They didn’t go to hell during his time as boss, they went to hell before he got there. 2. Chrysler didn’t get a handout from the government, and the taxpayers didn’t pay anything. The government guaranteed private loans, which Chrysler paid of 7 years early. 3. Iacocca is credited with turning the company around, and they certainly did START making great cars under his leadership. Maybe the minivan rings a bell? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/22 "2011-09-30T22:23:23Z")
> [@Omar Little](#): > > I personally think it’s a bit unfair to equate Cuban’s and Zuckerberg’s success to luck. There really is no such thing as luck. If they were “lucky” as you claim, then they were smart enough to be in the middle of the street when the luck truck drove by and hit them. It’s not like they were sitting on their asses surfing the internet and Ed McMahon knocked on their door. They were each taking risks, putting up their own capital to start businesses that someone else valued. That’s hardly luck. No, it’s just partly luck. I don’t think anybody’s actually “equating” Cuban’s and Zuckerberg’s successes to luck here. Just noting that plenty of other people work as hard and have as good ideas and take as many risks without happening to hit that one-in-a-million sweet spot of perfectly timed opportunity. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge them their good fortune, but it’s always good to bear in mind that hard work and ability are not the **only** factors in financial success. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/23 "2011-10-01T03:56:36Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t know if that is a GQ, but I would assume a couple of reasons play a big role. > > 1. We are a meritocratic society that believes (rightly or wrongly) that wealth is a sign of good character. So if you have wealth you must have good character traits, if you are poor you must have bad traits. > > 2. Authoritarians tend to grovel to the powerful (the military, the police, corporations, the rich, lobbyists) and feel contempt for the weak and disaffected (gays, blacks, the poor, workers, etc) and those who defend the weak/disaffected. So that would be an extension of that. The OP did not ask for examples of strawmen that the left use against the right, but thanks. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/24 "2011-10-01T10:54:00Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The OP did not ask for examples of strawmen that the left use against the right, but thanks. Dude, the idea that rich people are better than poor people and that most poor people deserved to be poor was the very position you took when you first got here. It’s not a strawman if people actually use it. I’m sorry I can’t be more detailed, but I am wary of going afoul of forum restrictions. I only referenced your previous actions because they directly contradict the point you were trying to make, which I believe is permissible in GQ. Especially in a GQ that is pretty much a GD or IMHO thread (and, yes, I reported it for a forum change.) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/25 "2011-10-01T11:51:16Z")
I see this as more of an opinion thread or debate, rather than an answerable General Question. Moved to GD. **samclem** , Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/26 "2011-10-01T14:26:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Dude, the idea that rich people are better than poor people and that most poor people deserved to be poor was the very position you took when you first got here. It’s not a strawman if people actually use it. > > I’m sorry I can’t be more detailed, but I am wary of going afoul of forum restrictions. I only referenced your previous actions because they directly contradict the point you were trying to make, which I believe is permissible in GQ. Especially in a GQ that is pretty much a GD or IMHO thread (and, yes, I reported it for a forum change.) Nope. You are illustrating exactly what I said–you are using that as a strawman. I absolutely do not believe that rich people are better or have a higher moral value or a higher social worth or anything else like that whatsoever–I don’t even thin that ideas like “moral value” and “social worth” have any meaning beyond “I like them.” I’ve never said anything that would lead a person without your agenda to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/27 "2011-10-01T14:40:34Z")
As I said in the other thread on exactly the same subject: When you define their [Cuban, Zuckerberg, etc] success has luck it means they don’t deserve the income or wealth that results. And if they don’t deserve it we can rationalize taking it from them. And since it’s good luck that makes wealth, it must therefore be bad luck that makes poverty. For the world to be fair and just, we rationalize taking the money from people with good luck, and giving it to people with bad luck. Although this will sound like a slippery slope, when you start adding in luck you find hundreds of ways in which a rich person had good luck, and hundreds of ways in which a poor person had bad luck; and it’s always after the fact. No one seems to care about all the bad luck Cuban, Zuckerberg, Gates, or Buffett had. Each successful person gets reduced to a string of lucky events, that you’d think would stop at being born to rich parents. But it carries on generationally to having parents that were born in American. Having grandparents that were born white. To having ancestors that used fire. What no one seems to want to acknowledge is that the “lucky event” was never an isolated situation granted only to the individual. Moses was lucky that God chose to talk to him, it’s not as if God was going around telling everyone to climb Mount Sinai. Moses wasn’t simply the first to the top, the only one to have survived the grueling climb. To put it in a context people will understand, winning the lottery isn’t something that just happens. Everyone has the same opportunity to play, and those that choose to play have the potential to win, those that opt out have ZERO chance of winning. It’s fine to say Gates was lucky to be born white, to rich parents, 20 years before personal computing would become huge, and go to a private school, and to have access to a computer at a time when computers were extremely rare. But he wasn’t the only one, in fact four of his friends also had access and also made use of the opportunity. Meanwhile hundreds of other children had access to that computer. The thousands of other private schools could have also gotten computers. And the millions of rich parents could have put their kids in private school. The “luck” Gates got rich off of was available to a lot of other people. So in effect, what people are bitching about is that Gates won the lottery when no one else bothered to buy a ticket. The book Outliers also highlights how hockey players have an advantage to being born in Dec and Jan. But the reverse isn’t true, being born in Dec doesn’t mean you’ll be a great hockey player, why? Because you still have to show up to practice. The Ironman World Championship is next weekend and there are two ways to get in, one is to qualify by being the fastest in your age group at a previous Ironman, like my friend that is on her way their now. The other way is to enter a lottery. But simply winning the lottery isn’t enough, you still have to show up, and you still have to drag yourself through 104.6 miles of blissful agony. There isn’t a lottery to be an Ironman Kona Finisher. Can you tell I’m bitter I didn’t win this year’s lottery? I plan to try and qualify next August, and it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than luck to finish in under 09:58:14. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/28 "2011-10-01T15:23:44Z")
Nobody’s arguing whether or not they deserve what they have; my point was that at least from where I’m sitting, pay undue attention to what they say about things, and I wonder why. Not because they’re undeserving, but inexperienced. That’s what I’m getting at- Cuban lucking into being a billionaire doesn’t indicate some sort of deep, profound understanding of the technology industry, so why quote the guy? Why care what he has to say about it? Same thing for Zuckerberg- he’s a what… 29 year old guy who took an idea and capitalized on it in a hurry, but ultimately, he got lucky. It wasn’t his superior business skill and acumen that made him successful. Buffet and the other guys people have mentioned (Gates, Jobs, Ellison, etc…) may have got lucky at some point, but they’ve been good at it for a LONG time. Decades in their cases. I can see why someone would care what those guys would say about the tech industry. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/29 "2011-10-01T15:40:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Same thing for Zuckerberg- he’s a what… 29 year old guy who took an idea and capitalized on it in a hurry, but ultimately, he got lucky. It wasn’t his superior business skill and acumen that made him successful.. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard Zuckerberg interviewed about something that wasn’t social media related. And lucky or not, he owns part of the most important western social media site, so its hardly strange to ask his opinion on that topic. Cuban seems to be in the news because he spends his own money on self-promotion, media projects, etc. So I’m not sure thats a case of people seeking him out for any special wisdom, he puts himself out and has the money to make himself noticible. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/30 "2011-10-01T15:57:32Z")
If luck/right time/right place/right product wasnt a major factor these type of guys could make billions from almost nothing over and over and over again every few years because they are so smart/hardworking/talented. But IMO they most very likely can’t. They can probably take the large sums they made, invest/work on other stuff and make some more money out the money they have but I seriously doubt its going to be another jackpot to the eleventy baby! event. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/31 "2011-10-01T16:21:41Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I personally think it’s a bit unfair to equate Cuban’s and Zuckerberg’s success to luck. There really is no such thing as luck. If they were “lucky” as you claim, then they were smart enough to be in the middle of the street when the luck truck drove by and hit them. It’s not like they were sitting on their asses surfing the internet and Ed McMahon knocked on their door. They were each taking risks, putting up their own capital to start businesses that someone else valued. That’s hardly luck. See, I totally disagree. I have a really good friend who got cancer at 38. After several agressive treatments, he’s still here. But he can’t work anymore, even though he’s currently cancer free. And he’s racked up six figures of hospital bills. He was a driven, smart engineer who could have been incredibly successful. And then he got cancer, and his career was over. Me, I’m smart but lazy, but I didn’t get cancer, and so I’m still able to work, in my middling lazy-ass way. So which of us deserved to get cancer? Yeah, it’s not “luck” in the sense that they were sitting around in their underwear and somebody dropped a dumptruck full of hundred dollar bills on them. Still, they were lucky they didn’t get cancer. They were lucky their dad didn’t beat the crap out of them as a kid. They were lucky to be taught middle-class values. They were lucky not to be born in Ethiopia. And so on. I know plenty of people who are dead now, due to what I can only see as random factors. Can you improve your odds? Yes you can. Being a success in business is not the same sort of luck as winning the lottery. But there are so many random and uncontrollable factors in life that to claim that there’s no such thing as luck is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/32 "2011-10-01T16:26:51Z")
Luck = Preparation + Opportunity. The Op is focusing only on the second part of the equation. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/33 "2011-10-01T16:29:35Z")
Cuban readily admits that he’s the luckiest bastard in the world. People like him because he doesn’t take himself seriously and he’s having one hell of a good time with his fortune. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/34 "2011-10-01T16:49:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Nobody’s arguing whether or not they deserve what they have; my point was that at least from where I’m sitting, pay undue attention to what they say about things, and I wonder why. If you’re simply wondering why they get attention is has a lot less to do with their money, and more to do with their notoriety. Why do people listen to athletes, musicians, or actors? CNN had a promo when I was watching the other day about how one of the Black Eyed Peas was going to weigh in on a subject. Luck and lottery winnings are irrelevant to THAT discussion. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/35 "2011-10-01T17:37:51Z")
Why do we care what Robert Redford thinks about the environment or what Ted Nugent thinks about gun control? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/36 "2011-10-01T17:46:58Z")
Honestly, I’d love to know where all this alleged love for Mark Zuckerberg and Mark Cuban is. They’re FAMOUS, but that doesn’t equate to admiration. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/37 "2011-10-01T21:32:17Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > The Ironman World Championship is next weekend and there are two ways to get in, one is to qualify by being the fastest in your age group at a previous Ironman, like my friend that is on her way their now. The other way is to enter a lottery. But simply winning the lottery isn’t enough, you still have to show up, and you still have to drag yourself through 104.6 miles of blissful agony. There isn’t a lottery to be an Ironman Kona Finisher. Can you tell I’m bitter I didn’t win this year’s lottery? I plan to try and qualify next August, and it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than luck to finish in under 09:58:14. My brother got in thru the lottery, a couple of years ago. He finished - 14 hours, 47 minutes, 13 seconds. Good luck. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/38 "2011-10-01T23:05:14Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Then by all means, set me straight. > > Iacocca undoubtedly had strengths, talents and virtues- complete idiots don’t get to be CEOs of major corporations. And given the state of the world and the auto biz in the Seventies, even an utterly brilliant man would have had a hard time. > > Even so, whether it was his fault or not, Chrysler went to Hell during his term as the boss, and they didn’t START making great cars under his leadership. Maybe it took a phenomenal effort just to keep the company from collapsing entirely. > > I’d STILL say it takes some gall to write a self-aggrandizing autobiography when your company is still making mediocre cars, is still treading water financially, and would be history without a big govenment handout. If, without Googling, you can tell me who Hal Sperlich is, I might actually think you know what the hell you’re talking about. If you know, within 10%, of the number of cars in Chrysler’s Sales Bank in 1978, you might actually know what you’re talking about. Again: no Googling. If you can tell me what auto executive made the front cover of Time and Newsweek in 1964, both in the same week, and why, you might convince me you know what you’re talking about. _Sans_ Google, etc. However I doubt it, because everything you’ve posted up to this point sounds like somebody making a specious claim, then backing into it with hastily researched citations. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167/39 "2011-10-02T02:37:12Z")
This sounds like an indictment of Romney. He won the genetic lottery, being the son of an auto chief exec who went into politics. Why did I care about what George Romney had to say about politics… But he went on to run for president. He was the gov.of Michigan too. He was also pretty goofy. So Mitt is born rich and gets to run companies that send work to China. That makes him qualified I guess. We do genuflect before the rich regardless of how they got it. Just look how well Paris Hilton gets treated for being rich. All doors are open to her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-love-for-business-figures-who-effectively-won-the-lottery/598167.md?page=1)