# Why all the paranoia about China but not India? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172 "2012-09-19T14:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/21 "2012-09-24T12:58:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > China is organized and India is chaos. This. The indian government can’t even assert authority over its own territory, never mind make moves on someone else’s. The literacy and malnutrition rates also tell a story. China certainly has some pretty bad social and economic problems, but India’s are far worse. > [@Namkcalb](#): > > India has shown itself to be much more kind to people with different values to the non-core group. > > Muslims are treated with kid-gloves in India. Well, apart from when they are being burned alive by hindu zealots, that is. But India is pretty equal-opportunity when it comes to large numbers of people being killed in riots, it happens every few years to all sorts of groups. The Chinese government on the other hand tend to get the hump when anyone other than the army go about massacring people, they feel their prerogatives are being encroached upon. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/22 "2012-09-24T16:59:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > There is some anxiety toward India in the US, too. It is seen as the paradigmatic destination for some categories of outsourced American jobs – call centers, perhaps foremost – and so is an increasing economic competitor in that regard. Actually, there’s been a huge backlash against Indian call centers in recent years. Call it racist or xenophobic or whatever, but the fact is huge swaths of the American population can’t understand “Eugene” and “Carol” at the customer support center in Mumbai. And 9 times out of 10, they don’t know how to solve your problem anyway. Increasingly, companies are deciding that the cost savings isn’t worth the bad PR and unhappy customers. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/23 "2012-09-24T19:09:06Z")
> [@slaphead](#): > > This. The indian government can’t even assert authority over its own territory, never mind make moves on someone else’s. The literacy and malnutrition rates also tell a story. China certainly has some pretty bad social and economic problems, but India’s are far worse. Perhaps I’m an optimist, but I think that democratic societies like India and the US will see more success than ones that aren’t free. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/24 "2012-09-25T05:41:54Z")
[Obama’s quote](http://www.ndtv.com/article/business/obama-gets-50-000-jobs-deals-worth-10-billion-signed-64739) from 2010 India visit: > [@](#): > > Boeing is going to sell dozens of planes to India and GE is going to sell hundreds of electric engines. The deals are worth USD 10 billion and will create more than 50,000 jobs in the US, India is also one of the largest buyers of weapons from the US. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/25 "2012-09-25T10:59:44Z")
> [@slaphead](#): > > Well, apart from when they are being burned alive by hindu zealots, that is. But India is pretty equal-opportunity when it comes to large numbers of people being killed in riots, it happens every few years to all sorts of groups. The Chinese government on the other hand tend to get the hump when anyone other than the army go about massacring people, they feel their prerogatives are being encroached upon. I don’t want to stear this thread into a debate on the appropriate response to Islamic extremism, but at least the Indian police respond to it even handedly. During the Xinjiang riots, the rioting Uyghur (a mostly Muslim turkman tribe) were rounded up and beaten by the police, but they turned a blind eye to the rioting [Han] Chinese. The same thing occured during the Tibetan protests. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/26 "2012-09-25T13:07:21Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > I don’t want to stear this thread into a debate on the appropriate response to Islamic extremism, but at least the Indian police respond to it even handedly. But that’s largely my point - in china, the shape of any major violent event is determined by the response of the central government. Whoever they want to see get beaten to a pulp, is crushed. In India, it’s more of a free-for-all - you never know who is going to be murdering who whenever someone decides it would be advantageous to whip up a communal riot. Half the time the trouble seems to be stirred up by some unscrupulous politician who thinks a pogrom will help them scoop up a few votes. The central government wrings its hands about it but doesn’t seem to be able to control events. Ditto for ‘internal security’ - there are thousands of Naxalite bandits/insurgents operating within India, to say nothing of the troubles in Kashmir, and the government is unable to shut them down. Within China, there is nothing like that as far as I am aware, any serious armed resistors got the chop long since. Its debatable as to which is the best place to live (neither, as far as I am concerned) but there’s no question that the Chinese government is far more in control of its own country and far more capable of pushing through its domestic and foreign policies. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/27 "2012-09-25T13:47:32Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps I’m an optimist, but I think that democratic societies like India and the US will see more success than ones that aren’t free. Perhaps that’s the case, but historically states with effective but unpleasant political systems tend to be far more successful than those with ineffectual but well-meaning ones. And I find it very hard to justify lumping the US into the same category as a country where this sort of thing goes on regularly and the ‘democratic society’ is either unwilling or too incompetent to address the issues. [http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/india-wheat-food-malnutrition-crops-idINDEE86101620120702](http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/india-wheat-food-malnutrition-crops-idINDEE86101620120702) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/28 "2012-09-26T12:04:49Z")
> [@slaphead](#): > > Perhaps that’s the case, but historically states with effective but unpleasant political systems tend to be far more successful than those with ineffectual but well-meaning ones. And I find it very hard to justify lumping the US into the same category as a country where this sort of thing goes on regularly and the ‘democratic society’ is either unwilling or too incompetent to address the issues. > > [Reuters | Breaking International News & Views](http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/india-wheat-food-malnutrition-crops-idINDEE86101620120702) Yes. Unfortunately, when it comes to large-scale contruction projects, there are advantages to being an authoritarian government. Especially one like China, where it’s part of the culture that the common people are supposed to be anonymous sheep who do whatever they’re told. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/29 "2012-09-27T05:15:28Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Yes. Unfortunately, when it comes to large-scale contruction projects, there are advantages to being an authoritarian government. Especially one like China, where it’s part of the culture that the common people are supposed to be anonymous sheep who do whatever they’re told. This is one detailed list of major infrastructure projects happening in India: > **[Indian Megaprojects](https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/indian-megaprojects.1259909/)** > > Here is the sectorial wise lists of projects that have been posted in this thread SO FAR > > STEEL SECTOR > > 1) Posco Orissa Steel Plant(12mtpa)=$17.5 billion > > 2) Arcelormittal Jharkhand steel plant(12mtpa)=$12 billion > > 3) JSW Steel Vijaynagar Steel... Total investment : $1.302 trillion India began its economic reform process only in the '90s, around 20 yrs after China did. So it will take some time for India to match China. India’s fertility rate is 2.56 births per female(in 2011 census). Its supposed to get down to 2.1(required for population stabilization) by 2025. And the population is supposed to stabilize in 2050 at around 1.6billion. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/30 "2012-09-27T11:20:51Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > This is one detailed list of major infrastructure projects happening in India: > [Indian Megaprojects | SkyscraperCity Forum](http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1259909) > > Total investment : $1.302 trillion It will be interesting to see how all these turn out. The list starts with $140billion in new steel capacity, when the chinese are at this exact moment mothballing steel plants due to collapsing prices. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/31 "2012-09-27T11:50:11Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Actually, there’s been a huge backlash against Indian call centers in recent years. Call it racist or xenophobic or whatever, but the fact is huge swaths of the American population can’t understand “Eugene” and “Carol” at the customer support center in Mumbai. And 9 times out of 10, they don’t know how to solve your problem anyway. Increasingly, companies are deciding that the cost savings isn’t worth the bad PR and unhappy customers. There’s nothing racist about expecting call centre staff to have the skills necessary to do their job. It would be like complaining nobody will hire me as an English-Japanese translator just because I don’t speak Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/32 "2012-09-27T12:13:52Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There’s nothing racist about expecting call centre staff to have the skills necessary to do their job. It would be like complaining nobody will hire me as an English-Japanese translator just because I don’t speak Japanese. Yeah, but you know how the people on this board are. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/33 "2012-09-27T12:28:58Z")
Frankly, I don’t think that the USA’s economic success in the 1950’s and 60’s can be duplicated-the era of cheap oil is over. For that reason, I don’t see China and India building a USA-style interstate highway system. What I do see is that East Asia will become a more polarized place-China is surrounded by states (Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, etc.) that fear Chinese domination. India is different-they are largely self-sufficient (although I see Indian efforts to befriend Burma (oil supply), and (finally) lifting the lower echelon out of grinding poverty. India has vast resources (including piles of thorium)-which may be the “oil” of the 21st Century. As for trade, the USA cannot tolerate the vast imbalance with China-either the Chinese go on subsidizing the dollar, or Chinese prices rise, and American manufacturing comes back. Will India be a major exporting nation? I don’t see that for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/34 "2012-09-27T14:41:57Z")
> [@slaphead](#): > > It will be interesting to see how all these turn out. The list starts with $140billion in new steel capacity, when the chinese are at this exact moment mothballing steel plants due to collapsing prices. For now though, the [steel demand projections](http://www.commodityonline.com/news/indian-steel-demand-to-grow-strongly-in-2012-china-to-slowdown-wsa-47783-3-47784.html) look good for India: > [@](#): > > "India is expected to resume its high growth trend. In 2012, India’s steel use is forecast to grow by 6.9% to reach 72.5 million tonnes. In 2013, the growth rate is forecast to accelerate to 9.4% on the back of urbanization and surging infrastructure investment”, the WSA(World Steel Association) report states. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/35 "2012-09-27T15:05:56Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Frankly, I don’t think that the USA’s economic success in the 1950’s and 60’s can be duplicated-the era of cheap oil is over. For that reason, I don’t see China and India building a USA-style interstate highway system. :smack: [Expressways of China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_China). > [@](#): > > The Expressway Network of the People’s Republic of China is one of the longest in the world. The network is also known as National Trunk Highway System (NTHS). In 2011, 11,000 kilometres (6,800 mi) of expressways were added to the network, for a total length of 85,000 kilometres (53,000 mi) at the end of 2011. > > China’s expressway system is longer than that of the European Union and surpassed the length of the United States’ Interstate Highway System in early 2011; however, when non-interstate freeways are counted, the U.S. still has a greater total length—approximately 57,000 miles (92,000 km). Are you Herman Cain in real life? This reads exactly like his statement that “China was trying to develop nuclear capability”. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/36 "2012-09-27T15:36:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > :smack: > > [Expressways of China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_China). > Are you Herman Cain in real life? This reads exactly like his statement that “China was trying to develop nuclear capability”. Interesting-so if China has, let us say, 500 million cars-where will the petroleum come from (to power them)? Of course, maybe that is what the Sprately Islands tiff is all about)! ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/37 "2012-09-28T16:30:35Z")
That’s the problem. Those millions of new Chinese cars are why the price of gasoline is only going to keep rising in the future. Simple supply & demand economics. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/38 "2012-09-28T16:39:36Z")
India is not a _military_ threat to the US because it’s not a hegemonic power, plain and simple. India _is_ a threat to the US in economic terms in ways China isn’t, though; for all its corruption problems, India has advantages like a common-law legal tradition and robust intellectual property law protections that China doesn’t. > [@Diceman](#): > > That’s the problem. Those millions of new Chinese cars are why the price of gasoline is only going to keep rising in the future. Simple supply & demand economics. So… what? They should stop buying cars because it makes things hard on US consumers? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/39 "2012-09-28T17:35:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > India is not a _military_ threat to the US because it’s not a hegemonic power, plain and simple. India _is_ a threat to the US in economic terms in ways China isn’t, though; for all its corruption problems, India has advantages like a common-law legal tradition and robust intellectual property law protections that China doesn’t. Yes, but China is much more wealthy per capita than India. It’s very simple. The United States has the largest economy in the world. China is second despite having 4 times the population of the US. India is way way behind with the 11th largest economy, again despite having 4 times the population of the US. China is much poorer per capita than Mexico, but 1.3 billion people add up. Assuming no Chinese implosion, in a couple decades China’s economy is going to be larger than the American economy, despite the fact that per capita they will still be much poorer. China’s economy is already much larger than Japan’s, but that doesn’t mean they’re richer than Japan, because Japan has 1/10th the population of China. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172/40 "2012-09-28T17:49:35Z")
That’s not the point. China wasn’t always wealthier than India; it shifted to a deregulated marketish economy much earlier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-all-the-paranoia-about-china-but-not-india/635172.md?page=3)