# Why Americans don't like soccer? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 29, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111 "2011-04-29T02:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/61 "2011-04-29T15:22:51Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > :dubious: I’d consider baseball the LEAST team oriented of all the major sports. No discussion of baseball as team sport vs. individual sport would be complete without [this clip of Al Capone’s speech on the subject from “_The Untouchables_.”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-sV-O2-jCY) For those who haven’t seen it, it’s pretty violent. For the OP, most of the good reasons have already been mentioned. I think soccer isn’t popular here because: It’s terrible on television. Either the field shrinks and all you see are little dots running around or it zooms in on two guys and you have no idea of the flow of the game. There’s no scoring, and little in the way of easy stats to keep track of. Go look at World Cup scores from back in the day and you saw the occasional 5-3 match, even between good teams. Now, it’s usually 1-0, 1-1, or 0-0. The rest of the world looks at that and thinks it makes each score more meaningful. American’s don’t and are bored at the idea. At least in American football, when the offense screws up and can’t get a touchdown, they can at least try for a field goal. (Even then, if there are too many field goals, the rules will get changed to de-emphasize them.) For baseball, even if there’s no scoring, there’s still plenty to keep track of and use to compare the performance of other players. I can go to baseball [reference.com](http://reference.com), and get oodles of stats for both batters and pitchers. I can show you, statistically, why Albert Belle got robbed of the MVP by Mo Vaughn. (Well, he got robbed by the BBWAA, but you get my point.) I can’t point out to you an easy set of stats for why Lionel Messi is so damned good. I can show you game tape, but it’s much more of a “feel” than a set of numbers. For better or worse, soccer is looked on as very unmanly for all of the %@(_#_%! diving. We expect our athletic heroes to take a hard hit and keep on striving to their goal. Bo Jackson running over Brian Bosworth on Monday Night Football is what we want to see. Not some guy getting tapped on the side while running and collapsing like he’d been gut shot. (At least until after the ref decides whether or not to award a card/trainer runs out with spray can of magic juice. Then he pops right up like nothing happened.) Embellishing contact to make yourself look more like a victim and thereby gain competitive advantage, makes you look like a little bitch to the average American male. (Pretty much a direct quote from those average American guys I’ve tried to introduce to watching pro soccer.) I know, it’s “gamesmanship” or some other facet of the beautiful game that I just don’t understand. To make things worse, the culture forces guys to dive when they get fouled, otherwise the ref will swallow his whistle. For the most part, the average American male does not want his sports teams competing to see who can be the bigger victim. That flopping has entered the NBA has helped ruin that sport for me too. Finally, do something about offsides already. Even hockey eventually modified the two-line pass rule. Make it like hockey with a “blue line” that the ball has to cross first, maybe double the length of the penalty box. But get rid of the judgment element and the seeming capriciousness of the rule. It will probably also increase scoring, which can’t be all bad. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/62 "2011-04-29T15:35:52Z")
There is no expertise in the bulk of American viewers. They see a guy running in and a defender takes the ball away. They are disappointed because the rush to the goal has ended. they don’t appreciate the deft footwork that stripped the ball. We don’t appreciate the finer aspects of the game. So it is guys running back and forth, kicking the ball OB, throwing it back in and kicking it Ob again. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/63 "2011-04-29T16:07:24Z")
Americans don’t like soccer because soccer is not an American game. We didn’t invent it, we never played a ton of it, and we created modifications of it that became insanely popular. It’s the same as why we don’t play cricket - we invented baseball instead. Keep in mind the years mentioned above. It’s not like soccer was a big deal anywhere before the mid 19th century. By that time baseball was going strong in America as an amateur game. The National League was founded within 10 years or so of the FA. The various aesthetic arguments are kind of besides the point. Obviously many many many people love soccer in spite of those features, so that can’t be the cause. Soccer could be the most compellingly perfect of all athletic pursuits (it’s not, of course, baseball is…), and Americans still wouldn’t necessarily embrace it. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/64 "2011-04-29T16:10:46Z")
Frank Deford said it best: > [@](#): > > …Soccer simply may be antithetical to the U.S. temperament and sensibility. It is not for us to feel guilty that we are out of step. Rather, it is for us to feel sorry for the rest of the world that it is not lucky enough to have games as good as the ones we have. > > After all, the authors ignore perhaps our greatest distinction. We don’t import culture. The only two major foreign items America has accepted recently are water in bottles and the Wonder Bra, and these both relate to modern life’s essentials – water and cleavage being as vital to our society as food and shelter. No, what we Americans do is we pass along our stuff to other, impressionable peoples: movies, music, Coca-Cola, the English language, basketball, bacon double cheeseburgers and what have you. > > For goodness’ sake, though, soccer has had even more chances here than Hillary gave Bill. We are, to start with, chock-full of immigrants who grew up in countries in which the game is adored. Huge sums have been invested in a succession of professional leagues that have received inordinate amounts of Pollyanna publicity. Pele was brought here to troop the futbol colors. The authors detail, at length, how many American children now play soccer. (Yes, soccer is terrific exercise, almost as good as tai chi – and nobody wants to pay to see that, either.) > > See, there’s the rub. If soccer had never had an opportunity here, one could argue that its time must surely come. But soccer has been jammed down our throats – and found wanting. The leagues fray, the TV ratings barely gurgle, and soccer kids can’t wait for soccer moms to pick them up at practice so they can go home and watch true-blue 'Mercan games. (Participation never equates to spectator popularity, anyway. Twice as many high school kids are on track and cross-country teams as play soccer, and the last time I looked, Yankee Stadium wasn’t packed for a track meet.) > > Desperately, soccer smug-nuts always fall back on accusing us American yahoos of failing to appreciate the grace and nuance of their superior game. First of all, any sport in which you hit a hard ball with your head is, ipso facto, neither graceful nor nuanced. Even ignoring that ugly idiosyncrasy, any run-of-the-mill 6-4-3 double play is more graceful than the most precious soccer maneuver. And nuance? For pete’s sake, every sport has nuance. Hello. That’s why Tim McCarver, John Madden and Mary Carillo have jobs. Nuance doesn’t make people care. About 99.44% of NFL fans don’t have the foggiest what nuances the nickel defense possesses. So what? It’s third and three on the 36. Turn up the volume and crack another brewski. … [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/2001/07/04/deford/](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/2001/07/04/deford/) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/65 "2011-04-29T16:15:47Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I actually think the clock has something to do with it. > > [ul] > [li]Games are 90 minutes. That’s _wrong_; American sports last 60 minutes.[/li][li]The clock counts up. That’s just backwards.[/li][li]The clock doesn’t stop. When 90 minutes are reached, the game doesn’t end; it goes on until the referee says that ‘extra time’ is up. How can anyone watch a game if they don’t even know when it’s supposed to end?[/li][/ul] > > It just seems _foreign_, and I think that puts people off. Uh, baseball doesn’t have an ending time. Or a clock at all. 😕 > [@the lone cashew](#): > > But it isn’t a game, it’s a question about why soccer lacks popularity in the USA. But this forum is for sports discussions. On the main page it says: **For games and sports of all sorts, including video games, board games, party games, role-playing games, cards, and puzzles.** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/66 "2011-04-29T16:17:39Z")
Oh, and I think soccer isn’t popular here because it just isn’t. It’s cultural. Some things are just ingrained in culture. A better question is how did Soccer gain popularity in most of the world and avoid gaining popularity here? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/67 "2011-04-29T16:17:51Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > It seems that the sports spread by the British Empire were the “posh”, establishment ones - rugby, cricket, maybe horse racing if what you say about racetracks is true. Soccer is the working man’s game. As the old saying went “Football is a game for gentlemen, played by ruffians. Rugby is a game for ruffians, played by gentlemen.” > > That said, some of the great European clubs were founded by British ex-pats, such as Milan (whose name is spelt the English way rather than “Milano”, for that reason). Not only horse racing, but (of course) polo and fox hunting (or even jackals if foxes were unavailable), and less-remembered sports like pig-sticking and that thing where they used to lance pegs. Equestrian sports are definitely posh now, but were once utilitarian when your soldiers and elites spent a lot of time in the saddle and needed to keep in practice in case the natives got tired of you. I appreciate your reply, Ximenean, I didn’t know that about AC Milan, great bit of trivia. What other clubs had English founders? Interesting thing about rugby how smallish countries like NZ, SA, Wales have such great traditions. Brings the lie to the American claim that they’d dominate soccer if they gave a damn and threw some money at it. Takes more than that. Finnagain, you’re coming off whiny. These bitchfests about Americans not liking soccer are all the worse because they’re often started by the English and countered (poorly-- we don’t like soccer because it’s not well-suited to television? That’s a reason?) by Americans, ignoring that there’s large (English speaking, wealthy) countries that also have no real soccer tradition. I pick on you because you need to jerk your knees a bit less. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/68 "2011-04-29T17:12:27Z")
Let’s keep in mind that the US does have some limited affection for hockey, and hockey is essentially just soccer on ice, with sticks. Hockey’s popularity is limited, though, by some of the same problems identified here; it’s too hard to follow on TV, and its action seems somewhat shapeless when compared to other major American sports. OTOH, instead of diving, North American hockey went the other way and institutionalized brawling. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/69 "2011-04-29T17:27:43Z")
I can’t tell you how sick I am of these, “Soccer Sucks, No It Doesn’t, Yes It Does” threads. After every fourth year, where I get sucked into the same arguments when American’s wake up and realize the World Cup is a big deal, I try to swear off getting in the middle of them. My take is, generally, pity for the people who don’t get it, and then apathy about what their feelings are or not. BUT … > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > 1. I just don’t think it takes much skill. Do not confuse skill with endurance. Soccer requires an insane amount of endurance. And like almost any “action” sport, speed certainly helps. But it does not, in my opinion, require the mastery of technique like other sports. This is just about the silliest thing I’ve ever read as an argument against soccer. Soccer is almost pure technique, almost by definition. These atheletes are basically doing with their feet what schlubs like us would have a difficult time doing with our hands, and there’s no technique? Just being fast? Utterly ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/70 "2011-04-29T17:31:22Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Let’s keep in mind that the US does have some limited affection for hockey, and hockey is essentially just soccer on ice, with sticks. > > Hockey’s popularity is limited, though, by some of the same problems identified here; it’s too hard to follow on TV, and its action seems somewhat shapeless when compared to other major American sports. > > OTOH, instead of diving, North American hockey went the other way and institutionalized brawling. Other than the fact there IS diving in hockey, this is perfectly said! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/71 "2011-04-29T17:33:24Z")
I find watching soccer boring, but I do recognise the dexterity and balance involved. It can be quite impressive. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/72 "2011-04-29T17:40:11Z")
Maybe Americans would like soccer better if it was played like [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flKzjuDhFDs&feature=player_detailpage#t=153s). ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/73 "2011-04-29T18:02:45Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Finnagain, you’re coming off whiny. That’s okay, you’re coming off like someone who doesn’t know how to find the Pit when you want to personally insult someone. > [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > because they’re often started by the English and countered (poorly-- we don’t like soccer because it’s not well-suited to television? That’s a reason?) That’s not a poor counter. _The fact that a game doesn’t lend itself to being viewed_ is not exactly an inconsequential detail when we’re talking about its lack of popularity. Not, of course, that whether or not it was a good reason would be justification for the absurd “gee, let’s piss on America!” nonsense. Nope, not if you feel like personally insulting someone because they point out that fact. > [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I pick on you because you need to jerk your knees a bit less. Thank you Mister Arbiter, quite selfless of you. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/74 "2011-04-29T18:12:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Yeah, because baseball, football and basketball are just absolutely _dominated_ by “clean cut white guys”, which is why they’re big in the U.S. :rolleyes: > > One thing I don’t get about non-Americans resenting the fact that soccer isn’t real popular in the U.S.: if we ever did get fanatical about the sport, we have great athletic talent and lots of bucks to invest in developing it, and before long lots of the world’s teams would find their asses getting kicked regularly by “Yankees”. > > Be thankful soccer has never made it to center stage in America. Hey, I never said that’s why _I_ don’t watch soccer. I do from time to time, and usually Premier League or MLS. I think that you’re on to something- if our soccer team does as well as it does being the what… 6th or 7th favorite professional sport on tv (I assume Golf and Tennis beat it, and don’t know about the WNBA), our national team (and domestic league) would be crazy good, if all the athletes who play football, baseball and basketball played soccer instead. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/75 "2011-04-29T18:12:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > This is just about the silliest thing I’ve ever read as an argument against soccer. Soccer is almost pure technique, almost by definition. These atheletes are basically doing with their feet what schlubs like us would have a difficult time doing with our hands, and there’s no technique? Just being fast? Utterly ridiculous. I didn’t say there was \*no \*technique. I just said that I think the skills required for soccer are easier to master than for other sports. Of course at the highest level the players possess skills far beyond your average schlub. You could say the same of bowling. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/76 "2011-04-29T18:15:31Z")
Sigh. It’s not popular as a spectator sport in the USA - it is immensely popular as a participation sport - because the history of the game took it in that direction. It has nothing in particular to do with the nature of the sport. Soccer isn’t a popular spectator sport in the USA for the same reason baseball isn’t popular in the UK, basketball isn’t popular in Japan, and hockey popular in France; it’s just not what happened to light a fire under people’s interest at a certain point in time. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/77 "2011-04-29T18:19:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Is this the “let’s piss on those horrible Americans” thread? Actually, like most threads about soccer, it’s about 50% “piss on Americans,” and about 50% “ignorant Americans piss on soccer and soccer fans.” The main answer to the question, of course, really has to do with the fact that most Americans didn’t grow up with soccer as a spectator sport, and that it is not part of America’s professional sports culture. And it’s not part of America’s sports culture because of certain decisions made a particular historical moments. That’s pretty much it. You can make all the arguments you like about soccer being somehow inherently boring, or unmanly, or whatever, but i absolutely guarantee that everyone who has made such a claim would, if they had grown up in a culture where soccer was part of everyday life, be as much of a fan of soccer as they currently are of American football or baseball or whatever. And the idea, advanced by **Argent Towers** , that baseball is the ultimate “real team game,” is completely preposterous. Apart from some specific aspects of the game like double plays, and the relationship between pitcher and catcher, there is almost nothing “team” about baseball at all. Every confrontation in the sport is essential a one-on-one duel between pitcher and hitter. On preview: what **RickJay** said. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/78 "2011-04-29T18:23:00Z")
In the 80s, there was an attempt to launch a professional indoor soccer league in the US. The game was played indoors on a smaller field with more action and higher scores. The ball could bounce off the walls and still be in fair play. I attended one of these games. There were higher scores but the spectators did not seem particularly interested and the league quickly fizzled out. My theory is that there are already enough sports in the US and it is difficult for anything new to gain traction regardless of the quality of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/79 "2011-04-29T18:37:16Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I didn’t say there was \*no \*technique. I just said that I think the skills required for soccer are easier to master than for other sports. And you’d be wrong. There is more technique in dribbling a soccer ball for 20 feet than there is in throwing a baseball 100 feet, or running 100 yards down a football field --especially when there are three defenders in those 20 feet trying to get the ball away from you. I’m really not trying to piss on you – and I know this will sound antagonistic, but I don’t really mean it that way – but you sound like you have absolutely no clue what sort of techniques are involved in playing the sport, so how can you make claims on how easy they are to master? ---
**Author:** ![purple\_cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@purple\_cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purple_cow)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111/80 "2011-04-29T18:39:48Z")
When people say soccer is boring, I always respond with the 1999 Women’s world cup final, US vs China. Even non soccer fans who watched thought it was an incredibly exciting, nail-biting, edge of the seat experience. Final score: 0-0 won by US in shootout. But the people watching CARED who won. That is 90% of the excitement of any game. I love football, but as a Jets fan, watching Tampa Bay play Seattle in October is completely unexciting because I have no interest in the result. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-americans-dont-like-soccer/580111.md?page=5)