# Why and How did New York (Manhattan, specifically) become the greatest city on earth? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674 "2010-09-30T23:40:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/21 "2010-10-01T15:35:44Z")
[Relevant Foreign Policy article.](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/08/11/the_global_cities_index_2010) Their top 5: 1. NY 2. London 3. Tokyo 4. Paris 5. Hong Kong ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/22 "2010-10-01T18:48:06Z")
> [@Ignatz](#): > > Location, location. Exactly. Until about 1946 or so when transatlantic air travel began to kill off the passenger shipping business, the only option to reach the States from Europe was by ship. And New York has the best harbor on the coast in terms of its central location with respect to population patterns. From looking at maps, it seems there was a major shipping pier at the end of every east-west thoroughfare. It wasn’t just a city with a port, but rather the whole city _was_ the port–with all that entails. Most Americans on their way overseas would cross paths there, and it was the first stop for most immigrants. On land, it’s close to most other major American cities, and this was more the case until about 1920. I was surprised recently to learn that it’s only about 200 miles away from DC; I’d thought that was a day-long drive, comparable to L.A. to S.F. or Las Vegas. But why did New York become _the_ city? I think it was because of the geographical constraints imposed by being on an island. You could find anything you wanted, and it was only a couple of blocks away. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/23 "2010-10-01T19:12:21Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > You could find anything you wanted, and it was only a couple of blocks away. Actually, it’s usually on Canal Street. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/24 "2010-10-01T19:29:34Z")
New York doesn’t often show up on lists of cities with the best quality of life. Some examples from Wikipedia: > **[City quality of life indices](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_livable_cities)** > > City quality of life indices are lists of cities that are ranked according to a defined measure of living conditions. In addition to considering the provision of clean water, clean air, adequate food and shelter, many indexes also measure more subjective elements including a city's capacity to generate a sense of community and offer hospitable settings for all, especially young people, to develop social skills, a sense of autonomy and identity. > Regions with cities commonly ranked in the top 5... Mercer’s City Ranking Tables 1 Vienna Austria 2 Zurich Switzerland 3 Geneva Switzerland 4 Vancouver Canada 4 Auckland New Zealand 6 Düsseldorf Germany 7 Frankfurt Germany 7 Munich Germany 9 Bern Switzerland 10 Sydney Australia The Economist’s World’s Most Livable Cities 2010 (Top 10) 1 Vancouver Canada 2 Vienna Austria 3 Melbourne Australia 4 Toronto Canada 5 Calgary Canada 6 Helsinki Finland 7 Sydney Australia 8 Perth Australia 8 Adelaide Australia 10 Auckland New Zealand Monocle’s Most Livable Cities Index 2010 1 Munich Germany 2 Copenhagen Denmark 3 Zürich Switzerland 4 Tokyo Japan 5 Helsinki Finland 6 Stockholm Sweden 7 Paris France 8 Vienna Austria 9 Melbourne Australia 10 Madrid Spain The 2010 rankings continued thus: Berlin (11), Sydney (12), Honolulu (13), Fukuoka (14), Geneva (15), Vancouver (16), Barcelona (17), Oslo (18), Montreal (19), Auckland (20), Singapore (21), Portland (22), Kyoto (23), Hamburg (24), Lisbon (25) ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/25 "2010-10-01T19:38:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > \ > As for the weather, it’s no worse than plenty of other places. Cleveland also has warm summers and cold winters. But it’s Cleveland. Speaking on behalf of my fellow Clevelanders, F\*\*\* you mhendo. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/26 "2010-10-01T19:42:46Z")
I don’t think anybody was defending the quality of life in NYC 😉 We’re talking about “greatness” here. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/27 "2010-10-01T20:00:58Z")
Blame Canada. If a single nation had grown up in eastern North America, the St. Lawrence might have been the seaway of choice from the Midwest. (With small canals connecting the lakes.) New York still would have been an important seaport, but only for the East, not for the whole continent. But with the hosers running the St. Lawrence, we had to dig the Erie Canal and funnel everything through New York. ---
**Author:** ![Jorge\_Burrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Jorge\_Burrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge_Burrito)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/28 "2010-10-01T20:08:42Z")
My guess is it has something to do with it being the entry point for large portion of immigrants coming to the U.S. (which of course is related to it being such a great harbor). Ultimately immigrants are what made the USA what it is, and being the entry point a larger percentage I am sure stayed in New York City. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/29 "2010-10-01T20:14:53Z")
I think the cheescake somehow had a lot to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/30 "2010-10-01T20:35:53Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > You could find anything you wanted, and it was only a couple of blocks away. You’ve obviously never looked for a parking space in Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/31 "2010-10-01T20:47:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > > You could find anything you wanted, and it was only a couple of blocks away. > > You’ve obviously never looked for a parking space in Manhattan. My office is on Broadway in midtown, and for some reason there are now a bunch of parking spaces in the middle of the street. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/32 "2010-10-01T21:10:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > > You could find anything you wanted, and it was only a couple of blocks away. > > You’ve obviously never looked for a parking space in Manhattan. New Yorkers don’t need “parking spaces.” They have feet, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/33 "2010-10-01T21:52:34Z")
LA, SF, Vegas and Honolulu are all better places to live. NY is great for all the culture, but I would not want to live there. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/34 "2010-10-02T12:41:56Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > LA, SF, Vegas and Honolulu are all better places to live. NY is great for all the culture, but I would not want to live there. Depends what you want from life, though, eh? I couldn’t imagine why anyone would want to live in the cultural wasteland of Vegas. Perhaps another measure (just for fun) is to look at international tourist stats. Could the city that attracts the most global interest this way be classed the ‘greatest’? All tourists stats point to [Paris](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism#Most_visited_cities). (New York comes in at 7th). ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/35 "2010-10-02T14:14:26Z")
First off, let me correct an earlier claim. NY was larger than Philly already in 1790 (I cannot find earlier data), although it really started climbing after the Erie. It was the port. Yes, Philly had a port (and when I was growing up there, they claimed the largest tonnage (as opposed to value) of shipping in the US. They vigorously opposed the St. Lawrence Seaway that they correctly claimed would divert a lot of shipping (and does, to the benefit of Montreal where I live today). But you had to send your way up the Delaware to get to Philly and NY was a great natural port from the beginning. My own opinion is that the US is a nation of immigrants and because of the port, they mostly came to NY and a lot of them stayed. I do not understand why my ancestors came to Philly, but they did. But the immigrant mix led to the greatness of NY. God, I would love to live there. But the health care here is just too important to me. And yes, it is not as livable, it is just great. And there may be as many as six open parking spaces in Manhattan as I write. But the first thing I would do if I lived there would be to get rid of my car. Incidentally, there is a story in this mornings Montreal Gazette of a woman who just paid $50,000 for a garage space in old Montreal. My daughter lives in Brooklyn (Park Slope) and that is just as great as Manhattan. You are never more than a block from most of the stores and services you want. That is the only city I have ever been in like that. For example, I have lived nearly two years in Zürich and really liked that city, but the most important thing was the tram system that allowed me to get anywhere easily, but the residential neighborhood I lived in for a year, was two long steep blocks from any shopping. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/36 "2010-10-02T14:25:38Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > > > Talk about begging the question… > > > > OK, assuming that I agree with your premise (which I don’t), it comes down to what it always comes down to: location location location. A good natural harbor almost always turns into a metropolis. > > The presence of a good harbor does not explain why some cities turn out to be truly awesome and why some are utter shitholes. With good harbors. > > I happen to be a lifetime resident of NY, and I vote with my feet. > > For starters, read Kenneth Jackson’s [Empire City](http://www.amazon.com/Empire-City-York-Through-Centuries/dp/0231109091/ref=sr_1_3?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285907163&sr=8-3). Does he explain how NY can be _both_ awesome _and_ a shithole _at the same time?_ Because that’s one issue no true Scots–uh, NYer will address head on. The usual thing is to dissemble - “We’re great because we’re tough and gritty,” or “Shithole? No, City X is the _real_ shithole,” or something to do with bagels. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/37 "2010-10-02T14:48:47Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > > > LA, SF, Vegas and Honolulu are all better places to live. NY is great for all the culture, but I would not want to live there. > > Depends what you want from life, though, eh? I couldn’t imagine why anyone would want to live in the cultural wasteland of Vegas. > > Perhaps another measure (just for fun) is to look at international tourist stats. Could the city that attracts the most global interest this way be classed the ‘greatest’? All tourists stats point to [Paris](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism#Most_visited_cities). (New York comes in at 7th). This seems like a stupid comparison to me. Paris is a couple of hours by train from many rich countries, often with cheap fares and no border controls. Other than Canada, all other rich countries are at least a 6 hour flight from New York. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/38 "2010-10-02T16:03:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > > You could find anything you wanted, and it was only a couple of blocks away. > > You’ve obviously never looked for a parking space in Manhattan. I wouldn’t need one. If I lived and worked in Manhattan I probably wouldn’t bother owning a car. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/39 "2010-10-02T16:06:32Z")
Back in the day, New York thought big. “Hey, lets build the longest canal in the world” “Hey, lets build the biggest bridge in the world!” “Hey, lets get all the money we can!” (OK we still think that) Let’s build Central Park. Let’s give Moses what ever he wants! Basically eminent domain made NYC what it is today. Oh you live there where we want to build this stuff? Fuck you, go to hell! We’re building it and you are just going to deal with it. Add to that the immigration through Ellis Island. The greatest import that came through NYC was people. Of course today we can’t even build a community center, so, there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674/40 "2010-10-02T16:08:40Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Does he explain how NY can be _both_ awesome _and_ a shithole _at the same time?_ Because that’s one issue no true Scots–uh, NYer will address head on. > > The usual thing is to dissemble - “We’re great because we’re tough and gritty,” or “Shithole? No, City X is the _real_ shithole,” or something to do with bagels. First you’ll have to convince us that NY is in any way a shithole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-and-how-did-new-york-manhattan-specifically-become-the-greatest-city-on-earth/555674.md?page=3)