# Why Anti-Zionism Is NOT Anti-Semitism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374 "2010-02-02T14:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mister\_Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mister\_Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Obvious)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/1 "2010-02-02T14:00:05Z")
Quite simply, because many Jews understand that God has not ended the Exile of the Israelites from the Holy Land. If He had done so, then the State of Israel would neither need: its army of overt IDF terrorists; nor its den of false-flag Mossad terrorists; nor American trioops as its ‘attack dogs’; nor billions of dollars in Foreign Aid (International Welfare) in order to maintain the security of its its existence. America had **no** enemies in the Middle East prior to our helping International Zionism steal land from its Palestinian rightful owners. Many Jews are well aware of this fact, and realize that the violent conflict there represents a Message from God. What He is telling them is, “I kicked you out of here until you learn to obey Me! You haven’t learned yet, but there are many Christians here in Palestine who **do** obey Me! Get out until you learn to obey and I tell you that your Exile has ended!” There are 12 tribes who are Israelites. Most of the Israelites are now Christians by Faith, including some who are Jewish by Ethnicity. There are impostors, however, who only **claim** to be Israelites (some self-identify as “Jewish”, some as “Christian”, others as “Muslim”, others as “Agnostic”, but all of the impostors practice counterfeit versions of the “Religions” which they claim to practice), and these are the “Synagogue of Satan” of which God warns to beware in Rev. 2:9 and 3:9. I believe that true Christians (as opposed to “Christian”-Zionist ‘Evangelicals’), true Jews (as opposed to Talmudic Zionists), genuine Muslims (as opposed to radical “Jihadists”), etc. may reside in the Holy Land provided they obey God’s admonition to live in peace with their neighbors as loyal citizens of their host nations instead of disobeying God by attempting to live as a disloyal “nation within a nation” or forcibly establish a Jewish-supremacist government and ethnically-cleansed territory there called Israel. When the Israelites learn to obey Him, and especially when the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel accept their Messiah who offered them Salvation 2,000 years ago, He will end their Exile. Jews (by Ethnicity or by Faith) who understand the above have rightly seen Zionism as a perversion of “Judaism” and oppose it through such organizations as **Not In Our Name**. I support Anti-Zionism 100%, but I am **not** the least bit “Anti-Semitic”. Anti-Zionism is often falsely maligned as “Anti-Semitism”, which it is **not**! I’m even dating a woman who is **Jewish** by Ethnicity, Christian by Faith, and Anti-Zionist as a matter of conscience! I predict that this thread will be “Closed” within 24 hours, I might even be Banned for alleged “Terms of Use” violations from alleged “Anti-Semitic” statements, and there might even be a “Witch Hunt” on here to try to find and retalliate against my girlfriend (who is also a member of Dope, but I refuse to reveal her name). I’ll be **thoroughly** surprised if the Admins of this board can handle the Truth better than I expect. Of course, I do expect to see a few ad-hominem attacks or attempts at ridicule. There’s always **one** of those “bad apples” in every bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/2 "2010-02-02T14:02:39Z")
Is this a good place to discuss [Berlusconi’s suggestion to bring Israel into the EU?](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/01/AR2010020101855.html) ---
**Author:** ![ReuvenB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@ReuvenB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReuvenB)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/3 "2010-02-02T14:04:59Z")
You really love the “scare quotes”, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/4 "2010-02-02T14:11:30Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > I predict that this thread will be “Closed” within 24 hours, I might even be Banned for alleged “Terms of Use” violations from alleged “Anti-Semitic” statements, and there might even be a “Witch Hunt” on here to try to find and retalliate against my girlfriend (who is also a member of Dope, but I refuse to reveal her name). I’ll be **thoroughly** surprised if the Admins of this board can handle the Truth better than I expect. Of course, I do expect to see a few ad-hominem attacks or attempts at ridicule. There’s always **one** of those “bad apples” in every bunch. It’s nice to meet you, too! Anti-Zionism isn’t anti-Semitic by definition, since some Jews were opposed to the creation of Israel for religious reasons. In practice today, yes, opposition to the existence of Israel is usually rooted in anti-Semitism. As for this other stuff about the 12 tribes and such, I have to ask this: why should anybody care? One religion is a made up as another. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/5 "2010-02-02T14:18:10Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > I predict that this thread will be “Closed” within 24 hours, I might even be Banned for alleged “Terms of Use” violations from alleged “Anti-Semitic” statements, and there might even be a “Witch Hunt” on here to try to find and retalliate against my girlfriend (who is also a member of Dope, but I refuse to reveal her name). I’ll be **thoroughly** surprised if the Admins of this board can handle the Truth better than I expect. Of course, I do expect to see a few ad-hominem attacks or attempts at ridicule. There’s always **one** of those “bad apples” in every bunch. Ah, the preemptive assumption of martyrdom. Of course, people couldn’t possibly disagree because your claims are gibbering nonsense. It has to be because they can’t handle the Truth. Here’s my prediction. You’ll get yourself banned, and go commiserate with your fellow true believers about how you were martyred for Speaking The Truth to the big, bad SDMB message board and their brutal mods. Internet martyrdom is cheap. Wake me up when the mods start sending thugs over to beat up banned posters to make examples of them ( “and we call THIS the Banhammer!” ). As for the rest; there’s no God to make any such decisions in the first place. And America has done plenty of other things to create hatred for itself besides support Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/6 "2010-02-02T14:30:55Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Of course, I do expect to see a few ad-hominem attacks or attempts at ridicule. There’s always **one** of those “bad apples” in every bunch. On the SDMB, it’s way more than one. > [@](#): > > America had no enemies in the Middle East prior to our helping International Zionism steal land from its Palestinian rightful owners. [‘I’m not sure I agree 100% with your police work there, Lou.’](http://www.amazon.com/Fargo-Special-William-H-Macy/product-reviews/B00009W5CA) Many of the nations of the Middle East, like [Iraq](http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/countries/blis_iraq_chron.htm) were a bit more cheesed off at the colonial powers of the area, like Great Britain, than the US. Likewise [Iran](http://www.mage.com/TLbody.html), which the Allies invaded in 1941 to establish a railway to get military supplies to the Soviets. And [British troops took control of Egypt in 1882.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/790978.stm) So it is a teensy bit over-simplified to blame all the issues of the US-Middle East on Israel. > [@](#): > > I believe that true Christians (as opposed to “Christian”-Zionist ‘Evangelicals’), true Jews (as opposed to Talmudic Zionists), genuine Muslims (as opposed to radical “Jihadists”), etc. may reside in the Holy Land provided they obey God’s admonition to live in peace with their neighbors as loyal citizens of their host nations instead of disobeying God by attempting to live as a disloyal “nation within a nation” How generous of you! I assume this means you oppose the creation of a Palestinian state, since everyone in the Middle East is obliged to live as loyal citizens of their host nations instead of setting up a new state. Enjoy your stay among us, if possible. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/7 "2010-02-02T14:31:33Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > America had **no** enemies in the Middle East prior to our helping International Zionism steal land from its Palestinian rightful owners. Many Jews are well aware of this fact, and realize that the violent conflict there represents a Message from God. What He is telling them is, “I kicked you out of here until you learn to obey Me! You haven’t learned yet, but there are many Christians here in Palestine who **do** obey Me! Get out until you learn to obey and I tell you that your Exile has ended!” If the actions of humans can represent a message from god (what happened to free will?), then why can’t American and other support for Israel be a message that god wants it to exist? Maybe the fact that Israel has never lost a war is a message from god to the Arabs to stop trying to take it back. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/8 "2010-02-02T14:37:41Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > … International Zionism [stole] land from its Palestinian rightful owners… Well, you sure seem open-minded! 😃 :dubious: Haven’t actually studied any 20th-century history though, have you? I’d invite Palestinians to the table only after they replace their despicable hatred-filled textbooks. Just out of curiosity, do you support teaching children to hate? Several international boundaries were redrawn after World War II. I don’t hear of Poles killing Russians to reclaim land, nor of Germans killing Poles. What’s really sick about “Palestinians unable to forget their stolen homes” is that the youngest with any actual such memory would be almost 70 years old now! One might speak of Russia “stealing” Polish land at the Yalta Conference, but your claim sounds like gibberish to me. Do you speak of the 1948 war? Or what? Whatever it is, go skim the Wikipedia article to at least have a clue; then come back and talk. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/9 "2010-02-02T14:43:32Z")
I was curious to see if the OP was one of those single post drive by types, and checked his history. He also contributed to [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=549269) recently closed thread, starting on the second page. Which is loony enough that I thought it deserved a link, especially since his posts there are about the same subject more or less. [QUOTE=Kolga] This is some high-quality crazy right here. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/10 "2010-02-02T14:43:35Z")
Oh man not the Twelve Tribes… Don’t you have a third temple to build? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/11 "2010-02-02T14:52:21Z")
Of course, all the “good” Jews (who have converted or are in the process of converting to Christianity) will agree with the OP. The [Satan-spawn Kenites](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=549269) who are masquerading as Jews will no doubt “point fingers” and mock. So there’s no debate here, unless it’s to wonder whether **Mister Obvious** ’s appearance presages a sudden influx of Christian Identity types or if it’s just a minor manifestation of a blip in the lunar cycles. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/12 "2010-02-02T15:05:11Z")
The “anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism” line is back again. The whole point of the line is to confuse two separate charges, the first being that it is fundamentally bigoted to oppose Israel, the second being that much of the opposition to Israel in the modern world exists because of anti-Jewish bigotry. Nobody believes the former claim and the latter claim is a perfectly reasonable one. So what do so many anti-Zionists do? They say that it isn’t anti-Semitic to criticize Israel and act as though this were some sort of significant observation. They can’t handle the charge that lots of the hatred that Israel faces comes from anti-Semitism (because this claim is accurate), so they just make a silly straw man argument at the idea that anti-Zionism is fundamentally anti-Semitic. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/13 "2010-02-02T15:27:46Z")
You know what’s fun about being Israeli? People like the OP are a lot more afraid of us than we are of them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/14 "2010-02-02T15:34:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know what’s fun about being Israeli? > > People like the OP are a lot more afraid of us than we are of them. Well, yeah. It’s the Satanic powers and your secret vampire army. Makes them nervous. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/15 "2010-02-02T15:42:15Z")
Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism because not every Jew is a Zionist. There, that wasn’t hard. But functionally, what is Anti-Zionism as a movement? Not non-Zionism, which, I think, is the default state of everyone on the planet, Jew or no, but Anti-Zionism itself? Can’t say I’ve ever seen anyone actually use the term Zionist without a nudge and a wink, myself. I thought Not in Our Name was an American anti-WarOnTerror group, now disbanded? Didn’t know they were AntiZionist. And being anti-Palestinian-occupation is not the same as AntiZionist. I’m very much against the way Israel handles Palestine, but I don’t think of myself as one. I support the State of Israel both as a place and an idea (although … I’m not sold on the continuation of the Right of Return into current times, I must admit). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/16 "2010-02-02T15:49:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, yeah. It’s the Satanic powers and your secret vampire army. Makes them nervous. It’s the secret opossum army. I learned that in the other thread. Though opossums may also be vampires, I haven’t decided. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/17 "2010-02-02T15:54:00Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know what’s fun about being Israeli? > > People like the OP are a lot more afraid of us than we are of them. Yeah, with enemies like this, who needs friends…? 😃 Seriously, this kind of talk probably helps our (Israel’s) PR more than any of us can manage even if we talk ourselves blue in the face. ---
**Author:** ![itsmeshh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@itsmeshh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/itsmeshh)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/18 "2010-02-02T16:00:01Z")
And I predict that most of the people who have negatively commented to this thread enjoy living in a state of perpetual denial and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/19 "2010-02-02T16:01:41Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > Yeah, with enemies like this, who needs friends…? 😃 > > Seriously, this kind of talk probably helps our (Israel’s) PR more than any of us can manage even if we talk ourselves blue in the face. Reminds me of the old Jewish joke about a Jewish guy who, every day, reads anti-semitic screeds with his breakfast. One day his wife asks him “why do you read that shit?” And he answers: “well, in the regular news all I hear about is terrorism in Israel and abroad, wars, and other bad news. In these, I read that the Jews are all-powerful, control the media, and have all the money in the world. I like to start my day with _good_ news!” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/20 "2010-02-02T16:04:34Z")
> [@itsmeshh](#): > > And I predict that most of the people who have negatively commented to this thread enjoy living in a state of perpetual denial and ignorance. Well as long as they are _enjoying_ it… Seriously: you agree with **Mister Obvious** , from what I can tell, so if you’re going to bother to post in this thread and you want it to stay open, make an argument instead of making insulting comments about other posters. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374.md?page=2)