# Why Anti-Zionism Is NOT Anti-Semitism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374 "2010-02-02T14:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/81 "2010-02-02T23:59:01Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I don’t bake it into a matzoh. That’s just a silly myth! > > I pour it on pork chops. Because the real Torah says that anything is kosher if it’s dipped in the blood of our enemies’ children. Add a side helping of possum and you’ve got the perfect Passover meal. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/82 "2010-02-03T00:05:24Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > That and do you really think the Jews aren’t watching you all the time? So that’s what the giant burning red eye over Jerusalem is for! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/83 "2010-02-03T00:06:55Z")
On a serious note (for this post at least), I’d just like to point out the hilarious irrationality of our new posters’ Conspiracy Theory. There are a group of people who pretend to be Jews. Think about that for a moment. The Jews, oppressed and tormented in virtually every age and virtually every nation, who else would you choose to pretend to be? It’d be like people trying to pass as black during Jim Crow or people pretending to be homosexuals during the Lavender Panic. Of course, there’s also the fact that they just made up a group and pretended that they’re the “real” Jews. But, seriously, people adopting an alternate identity and choosing the Jews of all people for it? I’m not sure if it’s because they’ve fallen for their own trick and they really believe that the Jews rule the world (and so who wouldn’t want to pretend to be Jewish?) or if it’s just another example of racism fear-mongering being somewhat less than a serious intellectual discipline. Either way, yeesh. Is it too much to ask for a Conspiracy Theory that doesn’t read like bad comedy or an L. Ron. Hubbard screed? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/84 "2010-02-03T00:11:08Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Possums, being half-Jewish (and half vampire), don’t do their own typing. They dominate Christians and force them to type. Silly. Aw, darn. Being a racist conspiracy theorist is HARD… Is there, like, a beginner’s guide? Like “Idiotic Racist Conspiracy Theories for Dummies?” Although that would be redundant, yes? No? _need answer fast!_ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/85 "2010-02-03T00:11:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So that’s what the giant burning red eye over Jerusalem is for! I thought that just meant that it was Happy Hour at the Young Men’s Reformed Cultists of the Ichor God Bel-Shamharoth Association. Half price on Bloody Marys. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/86 "2010-02-03T00:23:30Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Is there, like, a beginner’s guide? Like “Idiotic Racist Conspiracy Theories for Dummies?” Sure, it’s not in what you think, believe, or can prove. It’s how you argue. For instance, first, find someone to hate. Doesn’t matter who, doesn’t matter why. If you can blame them for your life not being what you want it to be, bonus points. Then, invent some stuff about them. Blacks? They corrupt white women. Jews? Control the world. Gays? Corrupt the youth. Whatever, go nuts. Now, and this step is important, people who aren’t hate filled and lacking critical thinking skills, people who know about history and current events will, sooner or later, call you out. At this point, just start slinging bullshit. If you can manage a Gish Gallop of pure fiction, go for it. This is where having fellow racists with the same CT really helps, so that you can have a list of ready-made fake Talmudic quotes or fake Zionist quotes or fake statistics about how illegal immigrants cause all the crime in Colorado, or whatever. If you don’t have lists of bullshit, or if they get called out and people point out that you’re making up things and claiming that they’re facts, just cryptically murmur about how the tide of history is on your side and your critics are sheeple and they can’t handle the truth and yadda yadda. [Important! Do not end your rant with “Heil Hitler!” That’s only for private meetings. You have no idea how many people make that mistake, gives away the noobie racists every time.] See, the important part of a racist Conspiracy Theory isn’t the theory, and it isn’t even the conspiracy, it’s the _racism._ Good luck, my young apprentice. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/87 "2010-02-03T00:41:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Good luck, my young apprentice. Wow, it’s so much to remember! I always thought it was a simple as “I hate them, they suck, therefore I’m right!” I shall endeavor to do honor to your teachings, Obi-Wan. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/88 "2010-02-03T00:48:03Z")
Bah. Obi Wan was a (secret) Jew, just like all those damn Liberal Jedi. No, call me Darth Angrypants. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/89 "2010-02-03T01:18:41Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Darth Angrypants. I am SO working this into conversation at the very next possible moment. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/90 "2010-02-03T01:31:12Z")
> [@itsmeshh](#): > > The OP is not “playing possum” he is otherwise occupied working on a project with his employees. For those who insist on being sarcastic here, this is what I have to say about the OP’s comment. > > You know the old saying “Truth is stranger than fiction!” don’t you??? I’ll leave you with this famous quotation, especially famous among those who are Students or Professionals of the fields of Science and Technology. To wit: > > “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” > Arthur Schopenhauer > German philosopher (1788 – 1860) > > Ridicule all you want, fight if you feel so inclined, just don’t act surprised when this Truth gets to it’s Third Stage. Truth is stranger than fiction? So by that measure Haiti wasn’t struck by a natural earthquake, but instead by an earthquake generated by a machine located in Washington DC. Certainly that is the strangest explanation I have heard so far for it. Perhaps that isn’t as applicable as you think. As to the quote: Here are three Nobel prize winning “truths” from this years awards. Please highlight the ridicule and violent opposition they generated: Medicine - Chromosomes are protected by telomeres and the enzyme telomerase. Physics - Charge “Bubble” Devices had the ability to transfer charge along the surface of a semiconductor. Chemisty - The peptidyl transferase is an RNA catalyzed reaction, and there is a mechanism of inhibition of this function by antibiotics. What? None of these generated ridicule or violent opposition? Perhaps that quote isn’t as useful as you thought either. Do you have an actual argument, you know, one informed by facts and/or figures? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/91 "2010-02-03T01:46:50Z")
By the way, an interesting article over at Nizkor, admittedly from a Christian perspective (so there’s some theology that non-Christians wouldn’t agree with) but all in all a very interesting look at the modern union of some divergent racist groups. Underlining mine. [ > [@](#): > > “Christian Identity” is the name of a religious movement uniting many of the white supremacist groups in the United States. Identity’s teachers promote racism and sometimes violence. Their roots are deeply embedded in movements such as the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazis. They consider themselves true Israel and view the Jews as half-devils and arch enemies. They believe all but the white race are inferior creations. Identity’s religious views are bizarre and occultic, and their view of history is often informed by conspiracy theories. > […] > Identity adherents believe they are the only descendants of Adam and the only chosen descendants of Abraham. This is the reason for the name Identity – they are convinced they know their true identity. They believe they are members of the supposed ten lost tribes of Israel. Identity adherents of today would include the British, Germanic, and Scandinavian peoples as those comprising the tribes of lost Israel. On the other hand, the Jew has for them become the great enemy. This insistence on singling out Jewish people as the enemy of the white race is the Identity movement’s most clear link to Adolf Hitler and his Nazi ideas. The more extreme groups believe in what is referred to as the “serpent seed” teaching that Eve and Satan had sexual intercourse and produced Cain, starting a line of half-devil people. For many Identity groups this imagined half-devil line of Cain is the Jewish race. > > Pastor Arnold Murray, an Identity preacher from Gravette, Arkansas, calls them “Kenites” (an Old Testament people he identifies as “Cainites”) > […] > Racism: The Basis of Identity Teaching > > Racial bigotry extends far beyond the Jews in Identity teaching. Since the white race alone has descended from Adam, the other races are viewed as a prior creation. They insist that Genesis 1:24, which describes the creation of animals and is prior to the creation of Adam, includes a description of all nonwhite races. In that list of created beings – “cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth” – they single out the word beast as a description of other races. This of course means they believe the other races are inferior. All Identity teachers refer to the word beast to explain how other races escaped the flood; they were included among the creatures that Noah and his sons rounded up for the ark. > > Because Identity teachers hold that the other races are of a different creation, they consider interracial marriage a sin. Identity teachers insist that interracial marriage was the cause of God’s judgment on the people of Noah’s time. Consistent with this twisted view of Scripture, they believe that to marry someone of another race is treason to one’s own race. > […] > The Identity stand against the Jews as a people without value who are enemies of the white race aligns the movement with other groups that feed constantly on conspiracy theories, including ones that are Nazi without teaching Anglo-Israelism. This taste for anti-Semitism is most responsible for the intermingling of Identity, Neo-Nazi, and other racist groups. Different groups will often use the same speakers at their various churches and survivalist camps. And individual members of different groups will order the same books from racist publishers. > > For instance, many Identity groups offer books by E. Raymond Capt and also use him as a speaker, since his specialty is supposedly archaeology and history. Capt’s writing includes such books as Stonehenge and Druidism and The Traditions of Glastonbury: The Silent Years of Jesus between 12 and 30. Another speaker used by most groups is Lt. Col. Jack Mohr, whose specialty is anti-Communism. Mohr offers such tapes as “Background to Betrayal: How America Has Been Betrayed by Zionists Both Jewish and Christian.” Many racist groups, including Identity groups, sell or refer to the book, Protocols of the Elders of Zion. This fraudulent book is supposedly a document of conspiracy by Jewish leaders to take over the world. > > Most conspiracy theories have developed from a particular fear – and the need to master that fear, by identifying a cause and then supposedly gaining control of the situation. ]([http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity/religion-white-racists.html](http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity/religion-white-racists.html)) P.S. See? Cainites. Damn Jewish vampires. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/92 "2010-02-03T01:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Pastor Arnold Murray, an Identity preacher from Gravette, Arkansas, calls them “_ **Kenites** _” (an Old Testament people he identifies as “Cainites”) Sounds like the tie in Ken dolls for Human Sacrifice Barbie, actually. That explains how they don’t qualify as real Jews! Real Jews are anatomically correct. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/93 "2010-02-03T02:11:12Z")
Nah. The dolls just had a mohel with really bad astigmatism. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/94 "2010-02-03T02:13:59Z")
Yes, as I posted in the other thread: [ > [@](#): > > -The Kenenites are the mortal enemies of the Barbieites, since the Barbietes stole the Kenenites’ genitals. > > -The Caininites are the childer of Caine and are divided into several clans including Tremere, Ventru, Toreador, and The Jews. > > -White Supremacist racism (and fear over political/social impotence) is mandated by God Himself, because God is an asshole. > > -Satan causes people to not be racists and His master plan is to abolish the chosen White Supremacist racism of God, also, Satan doesn’t believe that Jews are lower than cattle. This shows that Satan is a pretty cool guy and we really should give Him a chance. Also, if reports are anything to go by, he inspires some bitchin’ rock and roll. ]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12064244&postcount=65](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12064244&postcount=65)) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/95 "2010-02-03T02:17:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What’s really sick about “Palestinians unable to forget their stolen homes” is that the youngest with any actual such memory would be almost 70 years old now! While I fully concur in the general consensus that this thread’s OP is gibberish and tainted gibberish at that, I have to point out that Zionists of all people are in no position to disdain the phenomenon of a displaced group feeling a strong attachment to a long-lost homeland. ---
**Author:** ![itsmeshh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@itsmeshh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/itsmeshh)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/96 "2010-02-03T02:20:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I mean, do you want to make any kind of argument that anti-Zionism isn’t anti-Semitism? Or that god doesn’t want the false Jews in Israel and so on - all those other points you said you agreed with? If it’s an original argument from me that you want, then I’ll give you an original argument. I’ll preface this argument by saying that I seriously doubt that any false-“Israelites” have actually participated in this thread, or any other thread on this site for that matter. The overwhelming majority of false-“Israelites” are so unfathomably wealthy as to consider online discussions of any kind with such “lesser beings” as those who have yet to reach the milestone of their first billion-dollar year in terms of personal income “beneath” them. I doubt there are any billionaires or trillionaires here among us. I imagine the average annual income of posters to boards like this to be around the $50K mark. To the false-“Israelites”, people such as us are even beneath “insignificant” in their eyes. False-“Israelites” would not “waste time” that they almost-certainly would feel is better-spent scheming to enlist others to do the work involved in expanding their Empire on such “trivial” matters as debating or ridiculing those who dare oppose them. My best guess of who **is** here ridiculing our posts? Some true Israelites and some non-Israelites who truly do not know whether or not they belong to one of the twelve Israelite tribes. People whose perceived “knowledge” consists of a lifetime’s worth of propaganda composed of a clever mix of outright lies and half-truths, the alleged “validity” of which they have scarcely even attempted to question. They, undoubtedly, feel **very** strong in their beliefs, but, unbeknownst to them, only in the Orwellian “Ignorance is strength.” sense. We do not “hate” these people at all! We pity them. We do not expect the scales to be miraculously lifted from their eyes all of a sudden, either. We sincerely hope, however, to convince them to begin using the power of Critical Thinking which God has given to the Human species and which sets the Human species apart from the “barnyard animals” which our self-appointed “Lords and Masters” of the false-“Israelite” persuasion consider us to be. A friend of ours coined the term “Lie Sandwich” to describe a favorite propaganda formula which the false-“Israelites” employ against those whom they consider to be of insufficient intellectual capacity to “catch” them at it. The “Lie Sandwich” term is one of many discussed in Kenneth Goff’s book, The Soviet Art of Brainwashing. Goff does not use the term “Lie Sandwich” in the book, but the term fits a technique descibed therein whereby a lie to be given false “validity” is situated between two statements which are widely accepted as “truths” (but may be lies themselves which are generally no longer considered untrue by a significant segment of the target audience). We challenge you to reject that propaganda and to go in search of the greater sustenance which comes from Truth. An excellent starting point is to read Kenneth Goff’s book from cover to cover! The book can be found on [Scribd](http://www.scribd.com/doc/7680588/The-Soviet-Art-of-Brainwashing) at the direct link I provided or located elsewhere by search of Author and Title if desired. All we ask is thay some of you perhaps do your own research and draw your own **real** conclusions rather than parroting the same canned “ridicule” we’ve seen a million times from those who remain determined to cling to factually-baseless Coincidence Theories rather than legitimately wonder whether they **might** have been deliberately misled all these years by some group of ultra-wealthy Elite whose only use for them is to exploit all of us for as much “cheap labor” as we can provide, with ever-declining wages and dignity for all of us in the long run. I don’t really care if these billionaire and trillionaire pukes call themselves “Jews” or “Oppossoms” or “Illuminati” or whatever. What difference would what they’re called **really** make if Elitist exploitation of us “insignificant serfs” really did turn out to be the secret plan of a few thousand ultra-greedy billionaires and trillionaires? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/97 "2010-02-03T02:28:50Z")
Where is Nurse Ratched when you really _need_ her? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/98 "2010-02-03T02:35:43Z")
> [@itsmeshh](#): > > We sincerely hope, however, to convince them to begin using the power of Critical Thinking which God has given to the Human species… I sense a flaw in your cunning plan. Or would that just be a contradiction? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/99 "2010-02-03T02:43:32Z")
> [@itsmeshh](#): > > The “Lie Sandwich” term is one of many discussed in Kenneth Goff’s book, The Soviet Art of Brainwashing. Goff does not use the term “Lie Sandwich” in the book, but the term fits a technique descibed therein whereby a lie to be given false “validity” is situated between two statements which are widely accepted as “truths” (but may be lies themselves which are generally no longer considered untrue by a significant segment of the target audience). Plenty of other stuff for people to take issue with, but as a matter of sloppy presentation, you can’t say that a _term_ is discussed and then that the term is not mentioned. The term is the word. You mean to say that the issue is discussed, or something like that. Oddly enough, given that you presumably accept the surrounding parts as true, that would make your statement on Lie Sandwiches a Lie Sandwich from your perspective. I just thought it was funny, is all. ---
**Author:** ![itsmeshh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@itsmeshh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/itsmeshh)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/100 "2010-02-03T03:15:47Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Plenty of other stuff for people to take issue with, but as a matter of sloppy presentation, you can’t say that a _term_ is discussed and then that the term is not mentioned. The term is the word. You mean to say that the issue is discussed, or something like that. > > Oddly enough, given that you presumably accept the surrounding parts as true, that would make your statement on Lie Sandwiches a Lie Sandwich from your perspective. I just thought it was funny, is all. Actually, I did notice that I used the incorrect word (“term” rather than “concept”) in that sentence, but only after the five-minute timeout for making corrections by Editing the post had elapsed. So, I’ll see if I can get Moderator approval to fix that and another typographical error I subsequently noticed. From now on, I’ll have to get into the habit of composing my posts as txt files in an external Word Processor or remember to use the “Preview” button to proofread before posting, since every typo and/or hastily-composed sentence will be picked apart for technicalities just as the True Believers of Coincidence Theories always do whenever anyone dares challenge those Coincidence Theories. Picky, picky! lol [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374.md?page=6)