# Why Anti-Zionism Is NOT Anti-Semitism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374 "2010-02-02T14:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/161 "2010-02-03T18:25:25Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I almost feel sorry for the OP. Like pushing baby chicks into a pool filled with alligators. However: Yeah, I remember when we’d just nudge those li’l baby chicks with our feet, or our beer cans, and they’d wobble along the edge of the plywood, flapping their little baby chick wings, and the whoops!, over they’d go, an bam! gone forever, just a swirl. You were there, and I was there, and whatsername would come by sometimes. Good times. Or possibly this was meant as a metaphor, in which case, disregard the above. Actually, this thread is making me nostalgic for that guy who thought the European Royals were all black in skin tone, and African in ancestry. He was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/162 "2010-02-03T18:38:23Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Actually, this thread is making me nostalgic for that guy who thought the European Royals were all black in skin tone, and African in ancestry. He was awesome. Yeah, I was thinking of him too when \*\*xtisme \*\*mentioned the quality crackerjack we’ve seen over the years. Too bad \*\*Egmont \*\*got sacked, it would have been interesting to put him and our two antifakesemites in a thread and watch them duke it out, Colosseum style. Come to think about it, they wouldn’t really have duked it out, would they ? They’d have just copy/pasted their drivel, each in his corner, and not even acknowledged the dissent. All right, so scratch that idea. How 'bout a **Mr. Obvious** /\*\*kanicbird \*\*cage match ? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/163 "2010-02-03T18:54:24Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah, I was thinking of him too when \*\*xtisme \*\*mentioned the quality crackerjack we’ve seen over the years. Too bad \*\*Egmont \*\*got sacked, it would have been interesting to put him and our two antifakesemites in a thread and watch them duke it out, Colosseum style. > > Come to think about it, they wouldn’t really have duked it out, would they ? They’d have just copy/pasted their drivel, each in his corner, and not even acknowledged the dissent. > All right, so scratch that idea. > > How 'bout a **Mr. Obvious** /\*\*kanicbird \*\*cage match ? I’m in. I’ll bet $5 and a box of wobbly baby chicks on my man **kanicbird,** and his slow motion crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mister\_Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Obvious)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/164 "2010-02-03T19:55:42Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Not to take this stuff seriously . . . but you wouldn’t happen to be reading a certain website known as whale to? Does the name Hilary Butler mean anything to you? David Ickle? Are Lizard Kings, Illuminati and chemtrails on your personal radar? I haven’t heard of Icke or Butler before, but I’ve heard of the “Chemtrails” story and various versions of “Area-51/Roswell/Extraterrestrial-Conspiracy” stories. None of it worth more than a skim and a chuckle. I’ve read an excellent article on a recent proposal submitted to the Obama Administration wherein it is suggested that FBI and/or CIA begin **openly** working to insert an assortment of obvious crackpots, violent radicals, and time-wasting nitpickers into anti-Zionist, anti-Conspiracy, anti-Abortion, Religious Right, and/or other discussion groups for the purpose of defaming them, frightening away new arrivals and inducing gullible participants to act as patsies for CIA-plotted false-flag violence, and/or simply wasting bandwidth and meeting time on trivial points or petty infighting. The CIA, MI-6, Mossad, ADL, etc. have engaged covertly in such tactics for years. The “Cognitive Infiltration” proposal submitted to the Obama Administration, for the first time, advocates an actual Budget line-item and official Director of dissent-suppression. Authors whose writings I enjoy include whistleblowing defectors from within the rank-and-file flunky-network that supports the Elite’s exploitation of us “lesser beings” without billion-dollar bank balances, authors such as Kenneth Goff and Charlotte Iserbyt. Those of you who deride our questioning of officially-recognized versions of events as symptomatic of some imaginary mental disorder that you only wish would be added to the next DSM edition are laughable. That’s an old Soviet trick, declaring political dissent to be a mental illness. I think the name proposed for the next attempt to declare dissent to be a mental disorder was something like _Political Paranoia_? Is that term still the leading choice, or has the fact that the proposal leaked out prematurely necessitated the selection of yet another new name for the re-packaging of that old Stalinist-era tactic? > [@Dr.Crap](#): > > I hate to break it to you but your self-hating girlfriend sounds like a very advanced [stealth Jew](http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/newversion/yudayasensou.e.htm). Her level of deception would suggest to me that she’s thousands of years old. If you were really concerned with your privacy, you would connect via a distributed, anonymous proxy network, but only when your ISP gives you a new dynamic IP address. This usually takes between 3-4 weeks and would significantly slow down your connection. Really, it’s a matter of your priorities. What’s worth more to you? Figuratively ejaculating onto a message board or your freedom? My girlfriend, a stealth Jew secretly conspiring against me, whatever that means? Nah, I don’t buy that one at all! If she were, she’d be better at whittling down her accumulated debt than I am. I’ve rate-shopped credit cards and grabbed permanent low fixed rates on transferred balances, have my mortgage more than halfway paid off in less than half the term of the loan, paid off two cars, and my total debt is now below $30K. Her being better at managing money than I is not the case at all. She’s still driving the same car she drove when she got her license; the thing is older than my kids; it has 400,000 miles on it and the engine was replaced with a used one 200,000 miles ago. My biggest fear where she’s concerned stems from the same trait which itsmeshh has pointed out to me about most of my former girlfriends over the years, very few of them have been very good at handling money. The only girl I ever dated of whom itsmeshh ever completely approved was a girl named Tracie. Tracie was a defector from a Freemason upbringing who spilled some of the details of the Masons’ part in the NWO to me. Tracie died when her car was struck head-on by a drunk driver as she was returning home from a new job she had just started earlier that same week. Do I think her estranged Freemason father had anything to do with her death? No. I’ve been reluctant to marry anyone for years, because too many of my friends have gotten stuck with half the prenuptial debts of their financially-inept ex-spouses. High-interest debt runs in my girlfriend’s family the way diabetes and heart disease tend to run in families. > [@Dissonance](#): > > You’re not fooling anyone, the “stealth” was “blown” on you and **itsmeshh**. > > Holy inflation batman, now there are \*\*\*trillionaire \*\*\* Jews running everyone’s lives! How exactly does this hierarchy work? If non-billionaire Jews are fake “fake Jews,” are the trillionaires fake fake “fake Jews” or does it go the other way and they become true “Jews” - and crap, is “Jews” the same as Jews? > > I’m confused, which means “I’m having sex with,” “friend” or friend. Hmm, and is I’m having sex with the same as “I’m having sex with?” Truly, you should publish a hierarchy of “quotes.” More nitpicking, as usual. I’m getting tired of wasting time answering these nitpicks, but being the boss here at my own firm means I can spend some Company time on trivial crap after I’ve finished the delegation of duties here and while I’m waiting for coats of paint to dry or other such time-dependent parts of my hands-on contributions to the daily work. When I enclose a single word in quotes, it typically denotes that I’m pointing out the difference between what the quoted word actually means and impostors sometimes’ having co-opted the same word to misrepresent themselves. Are italics preferred for that, perhaps? The use of quotes around a word that generally has a positive denotation (friend, for example), typically indicates that the person to whom I was referring was not what the word itself indicated. With friends like the ex who itsmeshh had also known, one does not need enemies. Is that sufficiently clear for you, or will you likewise nitpick that explanation? The family fortune of the Rothschild banking cartel, including the $11 trillion American debt of imaginary Fractional Reserve money (I won’t use quotes here, to head off another nitpick at the pass), is estimated to exceed $100 trillion. How much of that ~ $100 Tr. belongs specifically to de-facto King of the World, Evelyn Robert de Rothschild, is irrelevant. Billionaires such as Warren Buffett are also part of the ultra-wealthy Elite. This is probably the most-dangerous political statement you’ll ever read. **Under Fractional Reserve Banking, the _money_ itself is imaginary. Therefore, the _debt_ it creates is likewise imaginary!** {Paraphrased from Political Fiction author and political blogger H.A. Covington) > [@FinnAgain](#): > > …Well, I could probably start with the fact that there’s no such thing as a white race or a black race, or that in English we capitalize proper nouns and not adjectives… > > I do have to say I’m disappointed in you. In the other thread in which your partner in crime plagiarized your “people of Walmart” stuff, the source material had showed you supporting some really interesting viewpoints.I wonder, why is it that you’re purposefully toning down your presentation and playing cutsey semantic games and continually trying to divert the conversation with long, irrelevant, rambling anecdotes? Hrmm… I wonder. > > Since this thread is evidently spawned by the continuation of a minor board invasion that started when someone else plagiarized your screeds from another site, I think it’s only fair to point out some other stuff you said. Let me remind you. > > [ > > So quit it with this tame bullshit and give us the pure, unadulterated stuff that we all came here to see. > > P.S. there’s no inherent part of western culture (itself a reification of disparate and divergent cultures depending on the age, location, and groups you look at) that holds that racial groups can practice self determination. But it is interesting that you think western civilization is founded on such curious ideas. White refers collectively to members of the Celtic, Nordic, Germanic, Hispanic, Latin, Aryan, Slavic, etc. tribes, nations, groups of Indo-Europeans. Black refers collectively to members of various sub-Saharan African tribes, nations, groups. Racial Nationalism, whether White or Black, at least informally, has adopted the usage of so-called adjectives as proper nouns as a matter of convention. While the technicality of its questionable grammatical correctness is a point of likely nitpicking, it has become a conventional practice, just as it is still a convention among Electricians to denote current flow from anode to cathode despite the fact that the actual direction of electron migration is from cathode to anode. Old conventions seldom disappear from usage entirely, just as the “racetrack” model of electron orbits continues to be depicted in introductory Chemistry textbooks decades after the “tumbling ellipse” or “electron cloud” model was found to depict the physics of atomic structure with far more accuracy. Western Culture is another convenient simplification of a more complex concept. I’m part Scottish and part Irish, so I observe both Tartan Day and St. Patrick’s Day as culturally-significant occasions. As for identifying which specific behaviors whose incidence is disproportionately greater among certain subsets of other races, we would have more time to focus on specifics if the nitpickers would settle down. lol What we’re criticising here are behaviors of certain members of other races, rather than the entire other races themselves. Hadassah was one example of a specifc **tradition** being criticized. The **ghetto gangsta** lifestyle is another. Look up the old Registrations for the merchant ships and the owners or the firms to which they were registered. You will note that Moses Levy, grandfather of Karl Marx, was the owner of one of those firms and more than one ship was registered to his firm. Members of the Schiff and Warburg banking families were also slave ship owners. Slavery was blatantly immoral, no argument there. Who was disproportionately represented among those who trafficked in slaves bound for marketing in North America? Jacob Barsimson, who was Jewish, lobbied for and received permission from Peter Stuyvesant for Jews to be permitted to engage in commerce with colonists of New Amsterdam in 1654. Incidentally, the **blood sauce matsoh** is not a universally-Jewish thing at all. There are, however, a **few** really demented people calling themselves Jews who do practice blood rituals. It was even covered briefly on a mainstream talk show, because even the Mass Media couldn’t sweep it completely under the rug. The kind of people who do are, obviously, not actually practicing Judaism when they practice these demented rituals. The practice of blood rituals is also not exclusive to a demented subset of the Jewish population, but is also practiced by a few demented non-Jews. The fact that we are criticizing behaviors specifically rather than groups in general ought to be self-evident, but the nitpickers don’t seem to understand that. Pitying the sinners while hating **only** the sin(s) is the philosophy of myself, itsmeshh, my girlfriend, and many of our newfound friends on peopleofwalmart. > [@Marley23](#): > > So far **Mister Obvious** (heh) and **itsmeshh** are playing the “WAKE UP PEOPLE!” card but have not explained their reasoning even the tiniest bit. Seems more like they want us to take their word for it rather than figuring out “teh truth” for ourselves. After perusing some of the advertisements here, I’ve determined that there are probably very few here willing to question the validity of positions taken by the current Administration, AIPAC, the ADL, etc. on any particular issue. **Jews for Jesus** does have my endorsement here, though. > [@Marley23](#): > > Speaking as a moderator, **Mister Obvious** , you need to stop trying to work the refs here. Your girlfriend is not going to be held responsible for anything you say, so enough with this garbage about someone else persecuting her. On this topic or any other, you’re answerable for what you say and she’s answerable for what she says. The two of us discuss two virtually-unrelated aspects of Religion, Philosophy, Politics here, and we mainly feel that it could incite more time-wasting nitpicking of our individual posts over the fact that we know each other at all were known than actual misuse of Moderator authority by anyone for retalliation. We each would prefer not to invite the possibility of others’ wasting our time by, for instance, asking her trivial questions about one of my posts or vice versa. We don’t even necessarily read every single one of each other’s posts, only those we specifically mention to each other as being part of a particularly-amusing thread or having provoked a particularly-ridiculous nitpick. Even if she **might** be following this thread, I doubt she would chime in unless someone said something really stupid that she might quote and sarcastically feign agreement with. Both itsmeshh and I will probably be moving on soon to another forum after one or two more of the few possibly receptive to political thought which is less-exclusively Liberal or perhaps **Jews for Jesus** have acknowledged us. It might surprise most of the posters here that there are, in fact, a few Liberal policies with which I partially agree, or at least feel are _better than nothing_ for addressing a problem which I agree should be addressed. Health- and Retirement Insurance for the elderly, for example. Medicare and Social Security are better safety nets than having no safety nets at all for those less fortunate than my own aging parents (ie: those without private-sector Pension and Medical coverage). The ideal fix would be Tort Reform and other stimuli designed to remove current obstacles to availability of affordable private-sector Insurance and Retirement plans for employees of small firms. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Not to take this stuff seriously . . . but you wouldn’t happen to be reading a certain website known as whale to? Does the name Hilary Butler mean anything to you? David Ickle? Are Lizard Kings, Illuminati and chemtrails on your personal radar? Returning to this comment for the wrap-up, we don’t buy into any of that ultra-bizarre stuff. Your “Lizard Kings” reference implies you must be a fan of “The Doors” and the LSD-inspired rants of their deceased vocalist. Am I guessing correctly? No, we don’t buy into any of what a few crackpots among us might preach. We recognize that there are some bad apples in our bunch, too, and the vast majority of Constitutionalists and other Freedom advocates shun them. We simply recognize that the old adages, “ **money = power, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely** ” are clearly factors in contemporary sociopolitical dynamics. We believe that America, as originally designed except that Slavery should never have been legal here, was a great idea and needs to undergo painstaking restoration to its original specifications. Every part of its original Principles cleaned and polished, a few worn-out parts replaced with new ones made of more-durable materials. Just as one might go about renovating a Historic building. Torn down and rebuilt, piece by piece, to the original specifications of the Constitution, if necessary. Isn’t it odd how more than 75% of the goals outlined more than a century ago in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are now _faits accompli_? In case there are some Rap fans here, this is a good Rap song. I like the way this guy thinks. Paris’ “What Would You Do”: [URL=“[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDuL4jTkz0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDuL4jTkz0)”][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC8Zrtah1AQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC8Zrtah1AQ)]([http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=7556](http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=7556)) Since humor is popular here, I’ll close with two examples of **Grains of Truth Uttered in Jest** Chris Rock on Race Relations: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui6-Wc0PDc4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui6-Wc0PDc4) George Carlin on Elitism and the hijacking of the American Dream: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDuL4jTkz0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDuL4jTkz0) Apologies for the length. Answering an entire day’s nitpicking in one post takes a lot of space. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/165 "2010-02-03T20:08:59Z")
Pointing out that you hadn’t actually offered any evidentiary support for any of your claims is… nitpicking? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/166 "2010-02-03T20:15:56Z")
My Lizard King reference was to people who really do believe the world is run by them. I have the same respect for them that I have for people who actually read the _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_ let alone take it seriously. **Mr. Obvious** , Do you really believe that there’s an ordained hierarchy and that white Christians men like yourself are at the top of it? Do you really believe yourself superior to just about everyone else based on nothing more than than your religion, skin color and penis? Really? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/167 "2010-02-03T20:19:10Z")
[QUOTE=Mister Obvious] More nitpicking, as usual. I’m getting tired of wasting time answering these nitpicks, but being the boss here at my own firm means I can spend some Company time on trivial crap after I’ve finished the delegation of duties here and while I’m waiting for coats of paint to dry or other such time-dependent parts of my hands-on contributions to the daily work. When I enclose a single word in quotes, it typically denotes that I’m pointing out the difference between what the quoted word actually means and impostors sometimes’ having co-opted the same word to misrepresent themselves. Are italics preferred for that, perhaps? The use of quotes around a word that generally has a positive denotation (friend, for example), typically indicates that the person to whom I was referring was not what the word itself indicated. With friends like the ex who itsmeshh had also known, one does not need enemies. Is that sufficiently clear for you, or will you likewise nitpick that explanation? The family fortune of the Rothschild banking cartel, including the $11 trillion American debt of imaginary Fractional Reserve money (I won’t use quotes here, to head off another nitpick at the pass), is estimated to exceed $100 trillion. How much of that ~ $100 Tr. belongs specifically to de-facto King of the World, Evelyn Robert de Rothschild, is irrelevant. Billionaires such as Warren Buffett are also part of the ultra-wealthy Elite. This is probably the most-dangerous political statement you’ll ever read. Under Fractional Reserve Banking, the money itself is imaginary. Therefore, the debt it creates is likewise imaginary! {Paraphrased from Political Fiction author and political blogger H.A. Covington) [/QUOTE] Well, seeing as how you are the boss and have all that free time on your hands while your trusted minions go about, er, minioning, could you perhaps be bothered to back up any of the above non-sense with something other than your own assertions? I mean, I could assert that evil monkeys fly out of my ass and that this is the actual cause of Global Warming, but without some kind of corroborating evidence from a respected source (i.e. non-nutbar), no one is going to take my unsupported word very seriously. Or, at least, if they DO take it seriously, then they are good candidates for someone to attempt to sell mid-Atlantic bottom land to. So…got anything? While you are at it, for this as well: > [@](#): > > Isn’t it odd how more than 75% of the goals outlined more than a century ago in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are now faits accompli? Could you demonstrate which of the 75% of the supposed Protocols are now fact? Thanks muchly… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/168 "2010-02-03T20:21:16Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > My Lizard King reference was to people who really do believe the world is run by them. Don’t you mean him ? [He](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_morrison)faked his death, you know. He’s still rocking out, somewhere. And controlling Wall Street. Oh yes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/169 "2010-02-03T20:24:17Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > There are, however, a **few** really demented people calling themselves Jews who do practice blood rituals. It was even covered briefly on a mainstream talk show, because even the Mass Media couldn’t sweep it completely under the rug. How did I miss that episode? The Mainstream Talk Show is my favorite program! I love Peter Mainstream as a host, I love the Musicianship Band, and I love discussions of Jewish but not exclusively Jewish blood rituals. I’ll look for it on YouTube. > [@](#): > > We don’t even necessarily read every single one of each other’s posts That’s a good choice on her part. > [@](#): > > Answering an entire day’s nitpicking in one post takes a lot of space. And yet, despite blathering on about your business and your relationship history, you didn’t answer any questions. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/170 "2010-02-03T20:24:18Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Those of you who deride our questioning of officially-recognized versions of events as symptomatic of some imaginary mental disorder that you only wish would be added to the next DSM edition are laughable. That’s an old Soviet trick, declaring political dissent to be a mental illness. There’s a difference between alleging that you should be consigned to a mental institution, and merely alleging that you have carnal relations with a Disney dog. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/171 "2010-02-03T20:33:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Don’t you mean him ? [He](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_morrison)faked his death, you know. He’s still rocking out, somewhere. And controlling Wall Street. Oh yes. Oh no. This website: > **[ BARTON HILL MATRIX RESEARCH LIBRARY](http://www.whale.to/)** > > Mapping & Killing the Matrix with Orgonite & Knowledge. The Medical Industry exposed, Anti-Vaccination Internet HQ of all that is completely crazy. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/172 "2010-02-03T20:35:14Z")
Awwwwwright! Bring the racist noise, bring the racist funk! Only a nitpicker would ask you to provide the basest support for your nonsense, real people interested in the truth will just believe what you say, without question or verification. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > I’ve read an excellent article on a recent proposal submitted to the Obama Administration wherein it is suggested that FBI and/or CIA begin **openly** working to insert an assortment of obvious crackpots, violent radicals, and time-wasting nitpickers into anti-Zionist, anti-Conspiracy, anti-Abortion, Religious Right, and/or other discussion groups for the purpose of defaming them Cite? Take all the time you want, this conspiracy theory is lamesauce. Like most CTers you’ve posited a conspiracy of Genius Fools. What sense does it make to openly announce your secret infiltration plans? You can provide that cite any time you like. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > My girlfriend, a stealth Jew secretly conspiring against me, whatever that means? Nah, I don’t buy that one at all! If she were, she’d be better at whittling down her accumulated debt than I am. Yeah, The Jews and their love of money, eh, eh? > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Tracie was a defector from a Freemason upbringing who spilled some of the details of the Masons’ part in the NWO to me. Ooooh, yay! Masonic conspiracy theories plus an added dollop of the New World Order. Let me guess, Jews control the Masons too? > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > This is probably the most-dangerous political statement you’ll ever read. **Under Fractional Reserve Banking, the _money_ itself is imaginary. Therefore, the _debt_ it creates is likewise imaginary!** ZOMG! Dangerous rebel thought that, well, pretty much anybody who studies the Schrodinger’s Cat nature of money and credit already knows. I’m sure the de-facto king of the world will be gunning for you any time now, given how dangerous you are. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Electricians Also not a proper noun. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > What we’re criticising here are behaviors of certain members of other races, rather than the entire other races themselves. Nope, as your quotes clearly show, you were criticizing the entire races. At least elaborate on that racist nonsense, these rambling asides about your dating history and W2’s are boring. Quit the diversions and serve up the racism already, it’s why we’re all here. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Hadassah was one example of a specifc **tradition** being criticized. In point of fact, it’s a specific example of a racist fiction you dreamed up to slander Jews. So, given that it’s an amusing racist fiction (and we’re here to be entertained by your amusing racist fictions), elaborate more on it. Tell us all about how Jews train their women to seduce men in order to get them to hurt their own intersts and help Jews. Where did you find out about this shocking behavior and what proof do you have of it? > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Look up the old Registrations for the merchant ships and the owners or the firms to which they were registered. Already had this debate,[the claim that Jews ran the slave trade is a racist fiction.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=524131&highlight=slave) > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > There are, however, a **few** really demented people calling themselves Jews who do practice blood rituals. Nope, you’re making that up too. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > **Jews for Jesus** does have my endorsement here, though. Yeah, we’ve also had threads pointing out how JfJ rely on lies and deceptions to try to trick Jews into converting. Try again. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > We each would prefer not to invite the possibility of others’ wasting our time by, for instance, asking her trivial questions about one of my posts or vice versa. Awwwwww. Having to defend racist nonsense is _hard_!☹ I feel your pain. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Both itsmeshh and I will probably be moving on soon to another forum after one or two more of the few possibly receptive to political thought which is less-exclusively Liberal or perhaps **Jews for Jesus** have acknowledged us. Yeah, the best way to win Jewish converts is to slander them with vile racism and then propose they join the most notorious of vile, lying con-artists-of-Christian-conversion out there. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Returning to this comment for the wrap-up, we don’t buy into any of that ultra-bizarre stuff. I’ve already quoted you doing just that. Now get back with the racist nonsense and explain all the stuff about fake Jews and true Jews and their conspiracy to rule the world. Come on, you’re not even being very entertaining now. > [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Isn’t it odd how more than 75% of the goals outlined more than a century ago in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are now _faits accompli_? See, saying you don’t support bizarre stuff and then voicing support for the most notorious of racist frauds of the last 100 years is not exactly convincing. And no, most of the goals have not “come to pass” and the fact that it was proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be a forgery (please, no bull about how if it’s forged then it’s a forgery of something real. If I forge a check and claim it’s from you, that doesn’t mean that you really wrote me a million dollar check) shows what kind of a person still points to it as anything other than racist filth. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/173 "2010-02-03T20:43:17Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > Look up the old Registrations for the merchant ships and the owners or the firms to which they were registered. You will note that Moses Levy, grandfather of Karl Marx, was the owner of one of those firms and more than one ship was registered to his firm. Since we’re nitpicking, neither of Karl Marx’s grandparents were named Moses Levy. His paternal grandfather’s name was Meir Halevy, the Chief Rabbi of Trier, and his maternal grandfather’s name was Isaak Pressburg. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/174 "2010-02-03T20:49:08Z")
The imaginary mental disorder doesn’t worry me. The real mental disorder is what you should get checked out. By the way, what is this supposed to demonstrate: [QUOTE=Mister Obvious] I’m getting tired of wasting time answering these nitpicks, but being the boss here at my own firm means I can spend some Company time on trivial crap after I’ve finished the delegation of duties here and while I’m waiting for coats of paint to dry or other such time-dependent parts of my hands-on contributions to the daily work. [/QUOTE] That you are employable? That you aren’t currently in an institution? I like the caps in “Company”, cause it makes it sound like the CIA. NB: Apparently David Icke no longer believes that the Royals are hybrid lizard people. According to the Fortean Times, current thinking is that the lizard people live in a nearby dimension and control the royals et al. as their proxies. I hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/175 "2010-02-03T20:56:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mister Obvious] Both itsmeshh and I will probably be moving on soon to another forum after one or two more of the few possibly receptive to political thought which is less-exclusively Liberal or perhaps Jews for Jesus have acknowledged us. [/QUOTE] More likely you’ll be banned. Personally, I hope not. I like having some crazies on the board, but they never seem to really last. It’s like Lennie with the mouse in his pocket, no matter how much you love and nurture them, they just disappear. Now I’m sad.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/176 "2010-02-03T23:12:05Z")
> [@Mister\_Obvious](#): > > My biggest fear where she’s concerned stems from the same trait which itsmeshh has pointed out to me about most of my former girlfriends over the years, very few of them have been very good at handling money. The only girl I ever dated of whom itsmeshh ever completely approved was a girl named Tracie. Tracie was a defector from a Freemason upbringing who spilled some of the details of the Masons’ part in the NWO to me. Tracie died when her car was struck head-on by a drunk driver as she was returning home from a new job she had just started earlier that same week. Do I think her estranged Freemason father had anything to do with her death? No. I’ve been reluctant to marry anyone for years, because too many of my friends have gotten stuck with half the prenuptial debts of their financially-inept ex-spouses. High-interest debt runs in my girlfriend’s family the way diabetes and heart disease tend to run in families. I can’t decide which is funnier - the sexual tension between you and your “sis-in-law” who hero worships you and provides approval or disapproval of your girlfriends (help me out, I’m still confused on the difference between “friend” and friend) or Tracie the defector from the NWO Freemasons. By the by, women aren’t allowed to be Freemasons but you probably already knew that. Here’s a “thought” for you (see what I did there? I used scary quotes so you know it’s a “scary thought”). 1. High interest debt runs in all your girlfriend’s families. 2. The “Jews” use their Jew Gold to control the world. 3. The Jews are controlling your girlfriends to control you! I vote you just get on with it, denounce your brother as a class/racial/religious/whatever enemy, take his wife, then you and **itsmeshh** can finally be together as God intended and foil the devious Jew plots against your marital bliss. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/177 "2010-02-03T23:33:40Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I vote you just get on with it, denounce your brother as a class/racial/religious/whatever enemy, take his wife, then you and **itsmeshh** can finally be together as God intended and foil the devious Jew plots against your marital bliss. While you’re at it, see if he’ll trade his birthright for a mess of pottage. Hairy bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mister\_Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Obvious)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/178 "2010-02-03T23:38:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pointing out that you hadn’t actually offered any evidentiary support for any of your claims is… nitpicking? Even if I cited old books containing supporting evidence (and they do exist), someone would nitpick at their being _outdated_ because they weren’t printed by some corporate publishing firm complete with ISBN number. I’ve already cited Kenneth Goff’s The Soviet Art of Brainwashing and Charlotte Iserbyt, author of The Deliberate Dumbing-Down of America. The Bell Curve, by Richard J. Herrnstein Charles Murray is another good recent source. I explained on the now-closed old thread that the chronology of events described in Chapters 1-3 of Genesis in the Old Testament clearly refer to three separate and distinct Human races. Getting back to the topic of Zionism, the events of June 8, 1967 [http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html](http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html) and the botched terrorist plot of July 2-14, 1954 known as The Lavon Affair [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon\_Affair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair) have shown that, with Israel as an ally, who needs enemies. Then there was 9/11/01, the five dancing Israelis, Urban Moving Systems, Lucky Larry Silverstein and his new lease on the condemned, heavily insured against terrorists specifically, and in need of serious renovation, obsolete Asbestos hazard known as the WTC. [http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wrh\_9-11\_index.html](http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wrh_9-11_index.html) How about those slave merchants? Here’s a bit of inconvenient History and even the book from which it is derived. The following passages are from Dr. Raphael’s book Jews and Judaism in the United States a Documentary History (New York: Behrman House, Inc., Pub, 1983), pp. 14, 23-25. > [@](#): > > “Jews also took an active part in the Dutch colonial slave trade; indeed, the bylaws of the Recife and Mauricia congregations (1648) included an imposta (Jewish tax) of five soldos for each Negro slave a Brazilian Jew purchased from the West Indies Company. Slave auctions were postponed if they fell on a Jewish holiday. In Curacao in the seventeenth century, as well as in the British colonies of Barbados and Jamaica in the eighteenth century, Jewish merchants played a major role in the slave trade. In fact, in all the American colonies, whether French (Martinique), British, or Dutch, Jewish merchants frequently dominated. > “This was no less true on the North American mainland, where during the eighteenth century Jews participated in the ‘triangular trade’ that brought slaves from Africa to the West Indies and there exchanged them for molasses, which in turn was taken to New England and converted into rum for sale in Africa. Isaac Da Costa of Charleston in the 1750’s, David Franks of Philadelphia in the 1760’s, and Aaron Lopez of Newport in the late 1760’s and early 1770’s dominated Jewish slave trading on the American continent.” Dr. Raphael discusses the central role of the Jews in the New World commerce and the African slave trade (pp. 23-25): > [@](#): > > During the sixteenth century, exiled from their Spanish homeland and hard-pressed to escape the clutches of the Inquisition, Spanish and Portuguese Jews fled to the Netherlands; the Dutch enthusiastically welcomed these talented, skilled husinessmen. While thriving in Amsterdam-where they became the hub of a unique urban Jewish universe and attained status that anticipated Jewish emancipation in the West by over a century-they began in the 1500’s and 1600’s to establish themselves in the Dutch and English colonies in the New World. These included Curacao, Surinam, Recife, and New Amsterdam (Dutch) as well as Barbados, Jamaica, Newport, and Savannah (English). In these European outposts the Jews, with their years of mercantile experience and networks of friends and family providing market reports of great use, played a significant role in the merchant capitalism, commercial revolution, and territorial expansion that developed the New World and established the colonial economies. The Jewish-Caribbean nexus provided Jews with the opportunity to claim a disproportionate influence in seventeenth and eighteenth century New World commerce, and enabled West Indian Jewry-far outnumbering its coreligionists further north-to enjoy a centrality which North American Jewry would not achieve for a long time to come. > > Groups of Jews began to arrive in Surinam in the middle of the seven-teenth century, after the Portuguese regained control of northern Brazil. By 1694, twenty-seven years after the British had surrendered Surinam to the Dutch, there were about 100 Jewish families and fifty single Jews there, or about 570 persons. They possessed more than forty estates and 9,000 slaves, contributed 25,905 pounds of sugar as a gift for the building of a hospital, and carried on an active trade with Newport and other colonial ports. By 1730, Jews owned 115 plantations and were a large part of a sugar export business which sent out 21,680,000 pounds of sugar to European and New World markets in 1730 alone. > > Slave trading was a major feature of Jewish economic life in Surinam which as a major stopping-off point in the triangular trade. Both North American and Caribbean Jews played a key role in this commerce: records of a slave sale in 1707 reveal that the ten largest Jewish purchasers (10,400 guilders) spent more than 25 percent of the total funds (38,605 guilders) exchanged. > > Jewish economic life in the Dutch West Indies, as in the North American colonies, consisted primarily of mercantile communities, with large inequities in the distribution of wealth. Most Jews were shopkeepers, middlemen, or petty merchants who received encouragement and support from Dutch authorities. In Curacao, for example, Jewish communal life began after the Portuguese victory in 1654. In 1656 the community founded a congregation, and in the early 1670’s brought its first rabbi to the island. Curacao, with its large natural harbor, was the steppng-stone to the other Caribbean islands and thus ideally suited geographically for commerce. The Jews were the recipients of favorable charters containing generous economic privileges granted by the Dutch West Indies Company in Amsterdam. The economic life of the Jewish community of Curacao revolved around ownership of sugar plantations and marketing of sugar, the importing of manufactured goods, and a heavy involvement in the slave trade, within a decade of their arrival, Jews owned 80 percent of the Curacao plantations. The strength of the Jewish trade lay in connections in Western Europe as well as ownership of the ships used in commerce. While Jews carried on an active trade with French and English colonies in the Caribbean, their principal market was the Spanish Main (today Venezuela and Colombia). > > Extant tax lists give us a glimpse of their dominance. Of the eighteen wealthiest Jews in the 1702 and 1707 tax lists, nine either owned a ship or had at least a share in a vessel. By 1721 a letter to the Amsterdam Jewish community claimed that “nearly all the navigation…was in the hands of the Jews.”‘ Yet another indication of the economic success of Curacao’s Jews is the fact that in 1707 the island’s 377 residents were assessed by the Governor and his Council a total of 4,002 pesos; 104 Jews, or 27.6 percent of the taxpayers, contributed 1,380 pesos, or 34.5 percent of the entire amount assessed. > > In the British West Indies, two 1680 tax lists survive, both from Barbados; they, too, provide useful information about Jewish economic life. In Bridgetown itself, out of a total of 404 households, 54 households or 300 persons were Jewish, 240 of them living in “ye Towne of S. Michael ye Bridge Town.” Contrary to most impressions, “many, indeed, most of them, were very poor.” There were only a few planters, and most Jews were not naturalized or endenizened (and thus could not import goods or pursue debtors in court). But for merchants holding letters of endenization, opportunities were not lacking. Barbados sugar-and its by-products rum and molasses-were in great demand, and in addition to playing a role in its export, Jewish merchants were active in the import trade. Forty-five Jewish households were taxed in Barbados in 1680, and more than half of them contributed only 11.7 percent of the total sum raised. While the richest five gave almost half the Jewish total, they were but 11.1 percent of the taxable population. The tax list of 1679-80 shows a similar picture; of fifty-one householders, nineteen (37.2 percent) gave less than one-tenth of the total, while the four richest merchants gave almost one-third of the total. > > An interesting record of interisland trade involving a Jewish merchant and the islands of Barbados and Curacao comes from correspondence of 1656. It reminds us that sometimes the commercial trips were not well planned and that Jewish captains-who frequently acted as commercial agents as well-would decide where to sell their cargo, at what price, and what goods to bring back on the return trip. OK, time to get back to work. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/179 "2010-02-03T23:43:09Z")
Nice cut and paste job there, Jethro. 10 seconds of Googling shows that you lifted that cite, in its entirety, from Stormfront. Case closed on your bigoted ass. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374/180 "2010-02-03T23:45:14Z")
Huh. So he’s a truther, too. What are the odds ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism/527374.md?page=10)