# Why antidepressants don't work.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 1, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241 "2010-02-01T15:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/41 "2010-02-02T10:47:45Z")
> [@Random\_Design](#): > > However from what people are saying here, it’s clear they’ve convinced themselves - perhaps out of sheer desparation, and who could blame them for that, that the medication is the answer, the only answer, forever and ever, amen. Gah. So it’s better to be the guy who thinks one study completely undermines every positive experience with the drug, and that the whole thing has to be a placebo effect because one study said so, despite the fact that other studies and personal anecdotes say otherwise. In fact, as was pointed out (if you paid attention), the actual depressed people did do better on the drug than placebo. So this doesn’t fit the it’s only a placebo theory, either. AS for the question asked by Indistinguishable: I think the studies are flawed in that it presumed that all SSRIs work the same, when, as anyone whose actually used them knows, they don’t. Different people seem to respond better to different ones. If you just assign them randomly, the ones that worked are going to be canceled out by the ones that didn’t. leaving the numbers statistically similar to placebo. The fact that those with severe depression actually did better indicates that the placebo group’s positives and the experimental groups positives were not among the same population. As for the actual article, it keeps pointing out that 75%-82% is efficacious in both placebo and experimental. Guess what? That means that the drugs are 18%-25% more effective than placebo. That’s still a clinically significant difference. It’s pure propaganda to say this means that the pills are just placebo. They actually do what they are supposed to do, even if that’s not as much as everyone thought. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/42 "2010-02-02T19:19:44Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > IANAD, but you may want to do some research on Bipolar Spectrum Disorder and/or read the book _[Why Am I Still Depressed?](http://www.amazon.com/Depressed-Recognizing-Managing-Bipolar-Disorder/dp/0071462376)_ by Jim Phelps. In sum, there are people who have been thought to be unipolar depressed but who are actually on the bipolar spectrum, meaning that their main symptom is depression with atypical mania or hypomania that isn’t recognized as such. For people with Bipolar Spectrum Disorder, anti-depressants may give a bump (or cause mania within the first few days of taking them), but eventually they wear off or stop working or don’t work as well. It strikes me that Zoloft made you manic (or what reads as manic to my eye) but that Lithium was helpful. To my untrained eye, this sounds like Bipolar Spectrum Disorder. But, again, IANAD. Actually, I do know this, now. I didn’t then. But thank you for posting about it. It helps to have this information out there! As it turns out, my psychiatrist didn’t suspect bipolar either until I totally flipped out on the Zoloft. That was her clue to my condition. Anyway, the point I was attempting to make was that if, as **Lissener** said, “a placebo would tend to work the way you expect it to,” then my lack of knowledge about bipolar disorder made me unlikely to expect a positive result from the lithium. I knew enough to know it was a treatment for bipolar disorder (which my uncle had), but not enough to understand the finer details. It worked in spite of what I expected, not because of it. Which suggests that my improvement wasn’t a placebo effect, but an effect of the drug itself. > [@niblet\_head](#): > > If you are still taking lithium, or you found it helpful but the side effects intolerable, you may want to ask your psychiatrist about Lamictal. It is a mood stabilizer that doesn’t cause the side effects of lithium. Fortunately, I’m off all drugs now. (Yay!) My theory is that the lithium got me stabilized to the point where therapy could have some effect. But if I ever need something again, I’ll keep this in mind. How is this relevant to the thread? I don’t know. I meant to relate this all back to the OP, but I’ve forgotten the point I was trying to make. Oh, well. Anyone got some memory drugs?? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/43 "2010-02-02T19:27:42Z")
Having recently been involuntary commited, I’ll say that I was totally appalled at the way drugs are forced onto people in that situation. I wasn’t there for more than two hours before I was handed a pill by a total stranger and was told to take it. When I informed him “I don’t do drugs,” I was told “This isn’t a drug. This is medication.” Did he think I was a total idiot? I was never informed what it was, what it did, and the potential side effects. It took me 14 hours to get food, and _38 hours_ to get basic toiletries. But the pills are shoved at you. When they finally forced me to take this anti-depressant, in an hour I was climbing the walls and belting out show tunes. Then I was told I needed a sedative :D. My singing voice is bad that I think they released me because of it. I had a pill problem decades again, and forcing me to take drugs was akin to George Orwell’s Room 100. I will always think of it as being given the Taliban treatment: Being locked up, tortured, and stoned. Anyone should have the option NOT to take drugs, but apparently that isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/44 "2010-02-02T21:37:37Z")
People seem to really really want to believe that forced psychiatric treatment is a thing of the distant past and its snakepits. It’s not. And to force mind-altering medication on someone involuntarily is to assault them in a very personal and intimate and emotionally shattering manner. It should be illegal to do so. Involuntary incarceration on the basis of something they merely _think_ you might do, as opposed to something you actually _did_, is bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![Waxwinged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@Waxwinged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waxwinged)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/45 "2010-02-03T01:23:05Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > Well, maybe it’s a placebo effect, but I had to try three different placebos till I found one that pulled me out of the darkness enough to start working on getting better. I’ll take it, thanks. Hear ye, hear ye! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/46 "2010-02-03T01:39:39Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Hm. On re-reading the thread, there are rather more people saying “Maybe it is a placebo effect, but that’s good enough for me, so long as it works” and less people saying “Nuh-uh, there’s no way this could be a placebo effect, because it clearly works well for me” than I thought. I have no problem with what the former group is saying, so perhaps I’ve wasted everyone’s time arguing with a phantom audience of the latter group. Oh well… The Dope is a strange place - not exactly a random sample. Its also quite possible that our proportion of people with moderate to severe depression is higher than the general population and/or we are less likely to medicate mild “cheer yourself up” depression than the general population - so the people reporting in have been those people for whom antidepressants do work better than placebos. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/47 "2010-02-03T03:06:56Z")
Charming. Just what we need. More ammunition for idiots who think depressed people could just get over it if they tried hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/48 "2010-02-03T03:16:32Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The Dope is a strange place - not exactly a random sample. Its also quite possible that our proportion of people with moderate to severe depression is higher than the general population and/or we are less likely to medicate mild “cheer yourself up” depression than the general population - so the people reporting in have been those people for whom antidepressants do work better than placebos. Those things are possible, but the fact that those things are possible doesn’t make the kind of arguments I was decrying any sounder. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/49 "2010-02-03T03:28:27Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Those things are possible, but the fact that those things are possible doesn’t make the kind of arguments I was decrying any sounder. Yes, but few people were making those sorts of arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/50 "2010-02-03T19:04:51Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > People seem to really really want to believe that forced psychiatric treatment is a thing of the distant past and its snakepits. It’s not. > > And to force mind-altering medication on someone involuntarily is to assault them in a very personal and intimate and emotionally shattering manner. > > It should be illegal to do so. Involuntary incarceration on the basis of something they merely _think_ you might do, as opposed to something you actually _did_, is bad enough. Thank you. I could not be put in prison for something I might do. If I had been convicted of 29 rapes and served my time, even if I told everyone I would rape again, I could not be held in prision. But because someone said I was suicidal, I could be lndefinitely locked up. As a going away present, I got a prescription for a drug which, when combined with a “Hannibal Lechter special” (liver, fava beans and a nice Chianti) would cause instand death. There is something extremely wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/51 "2010-02-04T10:28:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Gah. So it’s better to be the guy who thinks one study completely undermines every positive experience with the drug, and that the whole thing has to be a placebo effect because one study said so, despite the fact that other studies and personal anecdotes say otherwise. I assure you that article did nothing for my opinion. It’s common sense really. ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/52 "2010-02-04T10:31:41Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > People seem to really really want to believe that forced psychiatric treatment is a thing of the distant past and its snakepits. It’s not. > > And to force mind-altering medication on someone involuntarily is to assault them in a very personal and intimate and emotionally shattering manner. > > It should be illegal to do so. Involuntary incarceration on the basis of something they merely _think_ you might do, as opposed to something you actually _did_, is bad enough. As someone who was also involuntarily medicated, I’ll just thrown in my “HEAR HEAR!”. It is an abominable tragedy of modern society that suicide is unacceptable, but forcing someone onto dangerous psychoactive medication is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/53 "2010-02-04T14:50:41Z")
It should be mandatory that you are given a written statement of waht the drug is, what it is supposed to do, and any side effects before it is forced on you. Having a person yiou never saw before in your life hand you a cup with a pill and telling you that you have to take it is frightening. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/54 "2010-02-04T19:03:50Z")
[hijack] We do have a political movement against forced treatment and involuntary psychiatric incarceration. One of our major movement founders [just died recently](http://www.narpa.org/chamberlin.htm). Those of you who feel this way should snag a copy of her book; it’s out of print but you can get it in the library. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241/55 "2010-02-04T21:35:07Z")
This study is not new, but basically confirms a lot of what many researchers have been moving towards in recent years. Antidepressants can help people who actually have depression, whereby depression means the real thing: thoughts and plans of suicide, utterly bleak view of the future, uncontrollable crying fits, physical shaking, inability to sleep, other bizarre physical symptoms, and a feeling that one is going insane. Antidepressants cannot help people who are feeling a little bit blue because they didn’t get a raise or their team didn’t reach the Super Bowl. The problem is that the definition of “depression” has expanded over the past few decades. It formerly covered only the first group, but now it covers the second as well. [Not surprisingly, the pharmaceutical industry is responsible for this.](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20851) They’ve spent billions of dollars on outreach to doctors, advertising, and even hiring celebrities to go on “Oprah” and talk about depression. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-antidepressants-dont-work/527241.md?page=2)