# Why are all Pagan's and Witches looked at as evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2000, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387 "2000-08-30T19:04:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![darkrose2121](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@darkrose2121](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/darkrose2121)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/1 "2000-08-30T19:04:31Z")
Hi, I’m Darkrose, and I’m a Pagan. Sound like an underground AA meeting? That is exactly how I feel. I’ve been pagan for 11 yrs. and yet Witches are still called fakes. I’m kinda mad about this, Magick is real in every day life. Every mother I have ever known to some extent has used magick. Did your mom ever make you feel better just by touching you? Of course, they all have. The simple want to make you feel better is in itself magick, but when the fever lessens or the headache calms, mom is in her own right a healer who uses magick. Now I’m not out to call your mom a Witch so don’t send me hate mail. My point is simple everyone who breahes has their own magick, what you chose to call it is your owm afair, just don’t call me wrong for the simple fact that you don’t understand my religion when in one way or another we are all magick. with kind intentions and blessed be darkrose ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/2 "2000-08-30T19:59:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by darkrose2121 \* > > \*\*Hi, I’m Darkrose, and I’m a Pagan. \*\* Welcome to SDMB! Ihope you plan on sticking around… > [@](#): > > \*\*I’ve been pagan for 11 yrs. and yet Witches are still called fakes. I’m kinda mad about this, Magick is real in every day life. \*\* I am all for you practicing your religious beliefs, but I do not believe in Magick, unless we’rre talking about the card game. That I believe in, I just don’t play it. 🙂 As to your comments about every mother does something to heal, I would like some evidence on this. Now, my mom could make us feel better with a hug or a kiss, but not “lower my fevers.” > [@](#): > > **just don’t call me wrong for the simple fact that you don’t understand my religion when in one way or another we are all magick.** I understand that you are entitled to be a pagan and I am happy for you if you are happy. I do not agree, however, that we are all magicians, and in fact I find things of this nature to be silly. Show me some evidence, and we’ll talk. * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING: Four months, three weeks, 17 hours, 54 minutes and 56 seconds. 5749 cigarettes not smoked, saving $718.73. Extra time with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey!\*[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/3 "2000-08-30T20:11:41Z")
"Why are all Pagan’s and Witches looked at as evil? " Well, the pointy black hat of course! ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/4 "2000-08-30T20:15:42Z")
For some reason, my first posting to this thread got lost. _sigh_ Anyway, welcome **DarkRose**! It’s always good to hear from a fellow Pagan. In response to your query, I think most people, when they think of witches, conjure up the image of Margart Hamilton and her wonderful preformance in _The Wizard of Oz_. It’s become a icon of western culture, that became personified in this one performance. The term _witch_ comes loaded with lots of negative connotations, therefore, I prefer to not use it. I like to use the term _Wiccan_ instead. Both terms come from the same Old English root word. Sorry, I don’t have a cite handy for that. I’m at work and don’t have access to my library at home. I’ll post it later. _bright blessings_ ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/5 "2000-08-30T20:20:41Z")
It’s nice to know that Fundamentalist Christians don’t yet have the market cornered on, “Well, of _course_ my religion is the true one, and even if you don’t know you’re a practitioner of it, you are, because we all are, mostly because we redefine commonly used words to mean something other than what they mean!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/6 "2000-08-30T20:21:46Z")
People find (fill in your favorite not like me group) to be evil because they look for evil in other people. You find what you seek. People who look for human beings to love, and join in the journey through life find people worth living with, and loving. It doesn’t change who you are that they so much want to despise something about you. It means that they are overwhelmed with their own need to seek what is evil. Probably has something to do with fear. Leave them to their quest, and seek love. Welcome to the SDMB, where even the Christians try to show love for their fellows on the earth. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/7 "2000-08-30T20:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by darkrose2121 \* > \*\*Hi, I’m Darkrose, and I’m a Pagan. Sound like an underground AA meeting? That is exactly how I feel. I’ve been pagan for 11 yrs. and yet Witches are still called fakes. I’m kinda mad about this, Magick is real in every day life. \*\* You’ll probably just have to get used to it. To be honest I think all that magick stuff is a bunch of bunk. In fact I still find it mildly annoying when magic isn’t spelled correctly, but it is just a very mild annoyance. I understand that this might not make you happy being as you probably feel pretty strongly about your beliefs. So please understand that I’m not trying to be offensive I’m just being honest. Now the topic mentioned something about viewing pagans as evil. I don’t view them as evil but I do view many of them as having rather silly ideas. The pyramids and stonehendge built by supernatural means? Crystals and stones used to heal people? Passive/aggressive wards placed against people? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Every mother I have ever known to some extent has used magick. Did your mom ever make you feel better just by touching you? Of course, they all have. The simple want to make you feel better is in itself magick, but when the fever lessens or the headache calms, mom is in her own right a healer who uses magick. \*\* If my fever drops it is probably because my immune system has finished wiping out whatever virus or bacteria was giving me problems. Or the medicine given to me has kicked in and helped me out. If someone I love being near me helps me feel a bit better it is simply because I enjoy their company. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Now I’m not out to call your mom a Witch so don’t send me hate mail. My point is simple everyone who breahes has their own magick, what you chose to call it is your owm afair, just don’t call me wrong for the simple fact that you don’t understand my religion when in one way or another we are all magick. \*\* Well that’s part of your belief system. I will call you wrong because I think the concept of “magick” is a bunch of bunk. But I’m not an intolerant SOB so as far as I’m concerned you’re free to practice your religion however you choose. You have a right to expect others to tolerate your religion but don’t expect us to accept it. Marc ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/8 "2000-08-30T20:30:57Z")
Well, wouldn’t that depend on the individual religious beliefs of those who make that particular statement? To a Christian your beliefs are wrong because you don’t follow Jesus Christ. To an Islamic man you’re wrong because you don’t follow Allah. Your question is so broad that one answer will not suffice. Btw, What exactly do you believe in? I’m not going to attack your faith or anything, I’m just curious. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/9 "2000-08-30T20:34:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\* > The term _witch_ comes loaded with lots of negative connotations, therefore, I prefer to not use it. I like to use the term _Wiccan_ instead. Both terms come from the same Old English root word. > > _bright blessings_ \*\* Thank you! Whenever I tell someone I’m a Wiccan, they look at me funny. I then try to explain the religion in watered-down terms, and when they continue to look at me blankly, I’m reduced to rolling my eyes and saying “I’m a witch.” But–after centuries of negative propoganda, Western culture is so used to seeing pagans as evil that it is going to be hard to shake. What I do is to be (fairly) kind, polite and ethical. Then, when people say something like “THAT’S not what I thought witches were like!” I smile and invite them to re-think a few of their ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/10 "2000-08-30T20:39:04Z")
If your child has a fever, here are a few possibilities: You are Christian. You pray to God. You are Wiccan. You perfom Magick. You are a skeptic. You hope. The child gets better. You are a Christian. God has answered your prayers. You are a Wiccan. The spell has worked You are a skeptic. The immune system has kicked in. The child gets worse. You are a Christian. God has not answered my prayers, but I cannot know the mind of God. You are a Wiccan. The ritual has not worked. Perhaps the energy wasn’t right. You are a skeptic. The immune system hasn’t kicked in. Hopefully, you get the kid to the doctor no matter what your belief system is, antibiotics being somewhat less fickle than God or Magick. Not everyone thinks Pagans and Wiccans are evil. Not everyone thinks Fundamentalist Christains are evil. Not everyone thinks atheists are evil. Some people think anyone different from them is bad and wrong, some people are more tolerant. Some people feel they are persecuted because they prefer vanilla ice cream, some are able to live as gay Pagans in multiracial relationships in the Bible Belt and feel completely accepted (maybe not). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/11 "2000-08-30T21:01:34Z")
Welcome, Dark Rose! All we who love are One. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/12 "2000-08-30T21:05:18Z")
I think you’ll find that Christians object to people performing miracles (or Magick as you like to call it) without the benefit of the Holy Spirit, but rather by means of some other spirit, because it undermines the idea that the Holy Spirit is superior in the spirit realm. I don’t think that is true mind you, but never-the-less, Christians belief there is but one Holy Spirit, thus, the rest are inherently un-holy. ---
**Author:** ![LaMaxwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@LaMaxwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LaMaxwell)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/13 "2000-08-30T21:08:40Z")
A couple of thoughts, if I may… My fundamentalist Christian family members seem to have an especially hard time with any religious idea that implies that we are one with God, God is within each of us, or we can become like God. That idea seems particularly scary to them. It may come down to the issue of “power”. It is offensive to some to hear that human beings may have some kind of “power” that is supernatural in nature. This seems to be at the root of my mother’s Paganphobia. I find it difficult, at best, to understand this. What is a spell but a prayer with props? Why are the gifts of the Holy Spirit (prophecy, for example) sanctioned while fortune-telling is abhored? (I mean abhored by FC’s and such.) I suppose the claim of supernatural powers offends and frightens some because it opposes the Christian emphasis on humility (“We are not worthy to so much as gather the crumbs from under Your table…”). As SWBIASBBNIOR (Someone Who Believes in a Supreme Being but not in Organized Religion), I confess to feeling a little shiver of superstitious dread whenever I hear a person say, “God wants me to do such and such.” Not that I would hate, condemn, or shun such a person. Well, maybe shun, a little. One more thought on Magick…All things that happen, happen for a reason. Every effect has a cause. Perhaps a sick child responds to a mother’s touch by relaxing, setting off a physiological response which boosts the immune system. That sounds both rational and Magical to me. I believe there is a rational explanation for everything. I believe there are laws in the universe of which we are unaware, and that everything occurs within the framework of those laws. I find that miraculous. Hope I’ve managed to make some kind of sense. ---
**Author:** ![LaMaxwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@LaMaxwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LaMaxwell)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/14 "2000-08-30T21:10:35Z")
Wow! jmullaney, you answered my question BEFORE I POSTED IT! It’s a miracle. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/15 "2000-08-30T21:21:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaMaxwell \* > It’s a miracle. I’m probably just possessed. Is there an exorcist in the house? Just to clarify, I meant: I don’t think that magic undermines that idea that the holy spirit is superior, but I do think it is superior never-the-less. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/16 "2000-08-30T21:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\* > > I’m probably just possessed. Is there an exorcist in the house? > > \*\* Sorry, but I just ate. And I don’t like to exorcise on a full stomach. ---
**Author:** ![lucie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed8c4c/32.png) [@lucie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/17 "2000-08-30T22:09:17Z")
Well met, DarkRose. I’m a former pagan who has sort of relaxed into a genial agnostism/atheism. We are have a low-stress discussion of Pagan rituals over on the IMHO board right now if you’d like to jump in. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=36486](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=36486) Hope that thread link works. Alas, too many centuries of endemonizing all who disagreed with the one true religion (whichever it is this week), with partucular emphasis on the old European pantheon is certainly one answer to your question. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/18 "2000-08-31T00:01:45Z")
Check out _A History of Witchcraft, Sorcerers, Heretics, and Pagans_ by Jeffrey Russell, 1980. The appendix gives a good history of the root of the word _wicca_ as well as _witch_. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/19 "2000-08-31T00:50:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think that is true mind you, but never-the-less, Christians belief there is but one Holy Spirit, thus, the rest are inherently un-holy. There _is_ One Holy Spirit. All those who love, whether Christian or Pagan, are begotten by the Exact Same One. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387/20 "2000-08-31T01:07:22Z")
I’m not sure that they are. I think most of them are tolerated and/or ignored, until they get in someone’s face. Some of them just want attention, even if it’s negative. “Hey, look at me, I’m **so** different from the rest of you.” I think more than a few wiccans (or witches) would find another religion (or belief system) if they were suddenly accepted by everyone, and if the local AmVets hall opened its basement for classes on casting spells. I must admit, though, the only ones I’ve met have been on-line, in list groups and on message boards. (I live in Iowa.) But they’re defensive from the get-go, and seem disappointed if they aren’t being persecuted. None of these folks have been accused of being evil. I think it disappoints them a little bit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-pagans-and-witches-looked-at-as-evil/31387.md?page=2)