# Why are all Scientologists looked at as flakes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2000, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671 "2000-09-01T17:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/1 "2000-09-01T17:04:28Z")
For years now, I’ve heard the the L.Rons are a bunch of (primarily) Hollywood Whackos. Now, I know that–at least according to my sources–the religion was formed primarily as a hoax. (for those who haven’t heard, the CW is that L. Ron Hubbard once said, “The easiest way to make a million dollars is to start a religion.” and proceeded to write Dianetics as proof.) Let’s face it, there are much flakier cults and sects out there. The Moonies, the Snake-Handler Sects in the Appalachians, and more. But as far as religions go, theirs makes some kind of sense, if you think about it in the right way. Hell, at least it’s consistent, which is more than I can say for the majority of mainstream religions! And IMO, if someone is happy with their version of truth, or Truth, who are we to crack on them? Except for the Moonies and the Snake Handlers 😃 After all, we all have our own Truths, don’t we? So why do they get picked on so much? It’s not as if there isn’t plenty of stuff to laugh at Richard Gere about, right? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/2 "2000-09-01T17:15:50Z")
Better shut up or I’ll sic my clam on you. 'Course mainstream sects think $cientology is whacko since it’s not mainstream. Others despise it because it’s not only a goofy system, it’s an increasingly powerful one. Damn. I don’t have my links handy. **David** , **Gaudere** , do y’all have some of the links with the SD on the LRonners? ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/3 "2000-09-01T17:18:25Z")
check out [http://www.clambake.org](http://www.clambake.org) for imfo on Scientology. basicly, the main problem is that it’s so powerfull. If 5 people in “Delaware” subscribed to it, no one would care. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/4 "2000-09-01T17:21:49Z")
this is going to be interesting. I’m out of town all weekend, and I probably won’t get on-line until Tuesday. By the time I get back, it should be a great mess. hee-hee. oh, and BTW, Andros, your clam? I hope she doesn’t know you refer to her like that! (boop-a-doo-bop-a-diddly-waah!) \ ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/5 "2000-09-01T17:25:53Z")
I find the main flaw is you have to pay money to find out what it is about, and when you are done you find out the alien Xircon (sp?) is going to come down in his spaceship and rescue you. Of course, they have a decent brainwashing technique called the e-meter along the way, so when you get to that point, you are more than happy to believe this. It is more of a means rather than an ends thing. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/6 "2000-09-01T17:36:01Z")
It’s Xenu, and if you ask them about Xenu they’ll deny any knowledge of him. A friend of mine is an anti-$cientology activist, and I’ll try to get her to post. She has amassed a great deal of information about their intimidation techniques when trying to keep defectors silent, several cases of coercion and even (allegedly) murder, or at least, negligent death of recalcitrant members. These few cases are the extremes, of course, but if they’re true they’re very troubling. In a more general sense, the fact that the “religion” seems to be little more than a well scripted pyramid scheme to bilk members of their money seems to be what’s responsible for their wider reputation. I went into the LRonHubbard museum in LA a couple years ago (I seem to remember that it’s on the same block as Ripley’s Believe it or Not and Frederick’s of Hollywood) on a very hot day. When my friend and I went in, we were asked if we had an appointment. I said “isn’t this a museum?” She said yes, but we needed to make an appointment. I rolled my eyes at my friend and we turned to go, at which point the “docent” told us that there was an appointment available, don’t you know, just at that moment. As she began the tour, she explained that they had to maintain the “appointment only” rule so the homeless wouldn’t take advantage of the air conditioning. Nice religion, huh? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/7 "2000-09-01T17:37:17Z")
I don’t view Scientolo **gists** as _particularly_ flaky, no more or less so than any other religious group. If they want to believe in engrams and auditing and Thetans and clears and whatnot, and pay their hard-earned money to advance in levels until they too are clears, that’s their business. More power to them. For all we know, they’re right. Scientolo **gy** as an organization, on the other hand, takes on its detractors with “dirty tricks” that would have Richard Nixon hurriedly covering steno pad after steno pad with notes. Nuisance lawsuits, slander, libel, threats, assaults . . . no action is too evil for them to undertake to protect their secrets or their “good name.” ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/8 "2000-09-01T17:37:29Z")
Eh… because they are. I mean Tom Cruize was smart enough to get out and John Travolta is still in. I mean we are talking about Vinnie Barbarino here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/9 "2000-09-01T17:40:08Z")
I didn’t know Cruise had defected. Can you point me to a reference? (Not a demand for proof; just curiosity.) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/10 "2000-09-01T17:42:08Z")
Dianetics didn’t start out as a hoax. This is an urban legend that has been picking up momentum. Sam Moskowitz, Harlan Ellison, and others have reported that L. Ron DID say that the way to make real money was to start your own religion. (The Scientologists have been trying to disprove this), but there’s no evidence that he had a bar bet with Heinlein or anyone else that resulted in his book “Dianetics”. “Dianetics” started out as a science fiction fan thing that spread pretty quickly as a form of do-it-yourself self-analysis. I believe that “Dianetics” was a legitimate best-seller (as opposed to the “engineered” best sellers that “Battlefield Earth” and his other later books were.) But the fad didn’t last long. L. Ron and his bunch targeted celebrities in a move to give their cult some prominent members and, by extension, credibility. They succeeded because they were persistent – Dianetics was published in 1950. They got Vinnie Barbarino almost a quarter of a century later. As far as I’m concerned people can believe whatever they want, as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody. It’s that last part that scares people about Scientology (the successor to Dianetics). They are a powerful and ruthless bunch, as the acknowledged record shows. Read about what they did to Paulette Cooper, or what they’ve been doing in Clearwater, Florida lately. [http://www.xenu.com](http://www.xenu.com) has a LOT of info, and links. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/11 "2000-09-01T17:43:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\*I don’t view Scientologists as _particularly_ flaky, . . . Scientology as an organization, on the other hand . . . \*\* In all fairness, pl (with whom I usually agree), $cientology is made up of what, Mormons? I agree that there may be $cientologists who are less flaky than others, but the fact remains that in order for Scientology to do all you said (and I’ve also heard elsewhere) they do, it would have to be _$cientologists_ doing it. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/12 "2000-09-01T17:53:10Z")
**lissener** , sure, but I don’t blame the run-of-the-mill, honestly-searching-but-probably-duped Scientologist for the actions of the leadership. It’s possible to believe in the tenets of a religion and have absolutely no clue about the actions of the men behind the curtain. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/13 "2000-09-01T17:57:18Z")
WHat IS their basic belief? I’m still confused on that one… Hey…this gives me an idea for a thread: If you could start your own religion… LOL ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/14 "2000-09-01T18:14:09Z")
More information can be found in this Straight Dope Column: [What’s up with Dianetics/Scientology? (12-May-1989)](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_134.html) The conclusion by Cecil Adams: “_Whatever may be said for Scientology as a philosophy (and there are those who say it has helped them), its record as an organization is one of unmitigated sleaze. Get mixed up with these people at your peril._” To answer the OP - why do they get picked on so much? Because they’re growing, they’re well-known and the track record of this organization is that they are very secretive and very greedy. At the site mentioned above (clambake) you can read a Time Magazine article that calls Scientology “the cult of greed”. You can read that for some background information. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/15 "2000-09-01T19:04:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*I didn’t know Cruise had defected. Can you point me to a reference? (Not a demand for proof; just curiosity.) \*\* As goofball lawyers would put it. It is hearsay(I wonder if spelled that right oh well). But I did hear it or read somewhere. Where I have no idea sorry. I also heard that they were mad he did but didn’t put to much pressure on him because of his “star” status. Sorry couldn’t be more help. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/16 "2000-09-01T19:40:03Z")
Whoa…I thought it was just some non-traditional religion… What a bunch of freaks…they even tried to bash Uncle Cec? For shame! ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/17 "2000-09-01T20:06:44Z")
Quotes from L. Ron Hubbard, according to _Operation Clambake: The Fight Against Scientology on the Net._ > [@](#): > > \*\* ENEMY SP Order. > Fair game. > May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed. > [sub]–Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter of 18 October 1967[/sub]\*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them. > [sub]–L. Ron Hubbard, “Technique 88”[/sub]\*\* > [@](#): > > **The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty. > […] > A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable. > [sub]–HCO PL March 1, 1965 “HCO (Division 1), Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, The Fair Game Law”"[/sub]** > [@](#): > > \*\* If there will be a long-term threat, you are to immediately evaluate and originate a black PR campaign to destroy the person’s repute and to discredit them so thoroughly that they will be ostracized. > [sub]–L. Ron Hubbard, “Handling Hostile Contacts / Dead Agenting” [/sub]\*\* [quote] \*\* If we do the above as our pattern, we will successfully bring the following facts into public consciousness:[list=1][li]People who attack Scientology are criminals.[/li][li]That if one attacks Scientology he gets investigated for crimes.[/li][li]If one does not attack Scientology, despite not being with it, one is safe.[/list=1][sub]–L Ron Hubbard, Executive Directive ED 149 INT 2 December 1966 “Branch 5 Project, Project Squirrel”[/sub]\*\*[/li][/quote] > [@](#): > > **The goal of the department [of governmental affairs] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by a high level ability to control and in its absence by a low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies. > [sub]–L. Ron Hubbard, evidence in _Church of Spiritual Technology v. U.S._, November 22, 1989. [/sub]** ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/18 "2000-09-01T21:37:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM.\*\* Wait a minute. But if L. Ron was trying to control the people he was talking to, then that was lie. But wait! If that was a lie then lying to people isn’t the only way to control people! But that means… oops, my eyes went crossed. Speaking of crossed, does anyone know why they use the cross as a symbol when they aren’t remotely associately with Xtianity? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/19 "2000-09-01T23:36:47Z")
Good lord! And I thought the whole Taking Children Seriously people were wacko! ([http://www.tcs.ac](http://www.tcs.ac)) And what other religion do you have to PAY to get into? Goodness gracious, aren’t pyramid schemes like this illegal? Has the government tried anything against them? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671/20 "2000-09-01T23:45:14Z")
Wildest Bill got there first. In answer to the OP as to why Scientology folks were looked on as being flaky, I was going to say “BECAUSE THEY ARE!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-all-scientologists-looked-at-as-flakes/31671.md?page=2)