# Why are American houses built so cheaply/poorly? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 3, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460 "2019-07-03T17:51:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/161 "2019-07-12T00:38:04Z")
Brick buildings in a kind of recent Seattle earthquake: [https://www.google.com/search?q=seattle+earthquake+brick&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=I6OD1TZ7Wy\_MIM%253A%252CpAuWQhBIAx8gHM%252C\_&vet=1&usg=AI4\_-kSTMnffeQfBs33cF8xBOipvxyWCwA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcj5mxkK7jAhXCiVQKHR1TBS0Q9QEwDXoECAQQCg#imgrc=I6OD1TZ7Wy\_MIM:](https://www.google.com/search?q=seattle+earthquake+brick&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=I6OD1TZ7Wy_MIM%253A%252CpAuWQhBIAx8gHM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSTMnffeQfBs33cF8xBOipvxyWCwA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcj5mxkK7jAhXCiVQKHR1TBS0Q9QEwDXoECAQQCg#imgrc=I6OD1TZ7Wy_MIM:) Fortunately nobody was in those cars. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/162 "2019-07-12T03:24:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Keep in mind, too, that the only houses that are hundreds of years old are the ones that were built solidly enough to last a couple centuries - you _don’t_ see the structures built at the same time that have since collapsed/burned/rotted/etc. So there is a selection process going on. True and dont forget all the upgrades that have had to go into some to keep them up. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/163 "2019-07-12T14:32:29Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > It would have to _exist_ first, and in any case would require replacing the whole roof, which is not something I have any interest in. > > There are other ways to do regular solar panels atop tile roofs that don’t require such wasteful destruction. > > The stupid way is to strip the tiles off under the solar panel area and replace it with asphalt shingles. Don’t do this. > > The correct way is to strategically remove the tiles from the points where the mounting hardware needs to be fastened to the roof and then fill that spot in with an expanding outdoor sealant. Then leave the rest of the tiles undisturbed. This takes a bit more effort. A mere technicality and more to the point I was trying to demonstrate that integrated options are here or coming soon, like [this one](https://www.hanergyamerica.com/hantile)… I concur that replacing your tile with asphalt shingles would be stupid and if you won’t replace your roof with an integrated solution or are unwilling to put [panels on a pole](https://hespv.ca/residential-solar-energy-systems/solarpv-grid-tie-canada/mounts/pole-mounts) then what else is there to comnsider? Your only option is the strategic pick n pull. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/164 "2019-07-12T19:52:05Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > …Houses are 2 stories at the most, and [apartment buildings with more floors than that](http://whba.biz/wp-content/uploads/apartment-style-18-best-images-about-small-apartment-buildings-on.jpg) tend to have flat built-up (tar and gravel) roofs. The trend for new houses in the Seattle area is frequently 3 story houses built on tiny lots with about 3 inches between houses. Basically they are going vertical with more density, I assume due to zoning/regulations. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/165 "2019-07-12T23:21:26Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > The trend for new houses in the Seattle area is frequently 3 story houses built on tiny lots with about 3 inches between houses. Basically they are going vertical with more density, I assume due to zoning/regulations. Isnt the lower level basically a garage, second level a kitchen and living room, 3rd is bedrooms? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/166 "2019-07-13T01:53:44Z")
Just out of curiosity, what do people with tile roofs do when part or all of the roof is damaged, and repairing the damage would cost more than replacing the entire roof with asphalt shingles? Obviously, if the house were some sort of historic landmark or in a preservation neighborhood, that would influence your answer, but what about a plain, ordinary house that just happens to have a tile roof? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/167 "2019-07-13T06:33:40Z")
You would have to basically be struck by a meteor to do that much damage to a tile roof. Those things are robust. New concrete tiles cost a couple bucks each. If you need to redo the whole roof at once then the same logic applies as discussed above: asphalt shingles (good ones) will give you about 25 years; concrete tiles will give you 50 or more. So either go with the cheaper option and expect to revisit it soon, or pay more for a longer-lasting product. Which is not to say there’s anything wrong with doing an asphalt roof. Just depends on your priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/168 "2019-07-16T21:09:07Z")
Again I want to add that yes, many quaint old European buildings are hundreds of years old. BUT, they are still centuries old and the styles show it and they need extensive upgrades to modern standards. And why wouldnt you want to eventually tear down an old building to build a new one thats more of what a modern homeowner wants? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/169 "2019-07-16T21:26:54Z")
There are plenty of “modern homeowners” who would be quiet happy with an old house. Some people really value history. So, for the ones that are well-built and can accommodate some upgrades there is no reason to knock them down. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/170 "2019-07-16T22:31:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There are plenty of “modern homeowners” who would be quiet happy with an old house. Some people really value history. So, for the ones that are well-built and can accommodate some upgrades there is no reason to knock them down. Living in a city in the Midwest, I hope to someday buy a Craftsman bungalow, either restored or a fixer-upper, depending on my future budget. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/171 "2019-07-16T23:05:24Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You would have to basically be struck by a meteor to do that much damage to a tile roof. Those things are robust. New concrete tiles cost a couple bucks each. > > If you need to redo the whole roof at once then the same logic applies as discussed above: asphalt shingles (good ones) will give you about 25 years; concrete tiles will give you 50 or more. So either go with the cheaper option and expect to revisit it soon, or pay more for a longer-lasting product. > > Which is not to say there’s anything wrong with doing an asphalt roof. Just depends on your priorities. Yeah, in _theory_. In reality, tile roofs rarely last more than 30 years or so before they need work. > [@](#): > > While the tile can last for decades, the felt underlayment often wears out sooner (20 – 40 years), and must be replaced to maintain your roof system. It is true that the tile can be re-used, which saves some money, but it it more expensive to install and repair compared to asphalt, so it’s a wash. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/172 "2019-07-17T02:22:13Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Where I am in the southwest Spanish tile roofs are very common. They’ve been making something of a comeback because they are now a lot cheaper to install. The new tiles are made from formed concrete rather than clay. I love mine - it’s a better insulator than asphalt shingles and should last basically forever, less the occasional replacement of a broken tile. > > The downside is that it makes installing solar panels significantly trickier. Unlike asphalt, you can’t just drill directly through into the rafters to screw in your mounting hardware. I have a perfect roof geometry for solar (big flat part faces exactly due south with no obstructions) so I’ve been looking into different solutions for managing it. I’ve got a tile roof as do all my neighbours: For solar panels, tiles are trimmed around brackets that are screwed to rafters. I was fascinated to see in Hawaii that tile roofs were being placed on plywood – matching what is perhaps a typical American shingle-on-plywood roof. What about southwest Spain? What do the Spanish wear underneath their tiles? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/173 "2019-07-17T02:28:15Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Yeah, in _theory_. > In reality, tile roofs rarely last more than 30 years or so before they need work. ? My tile roof is 30 years old and hasn’t needed any work. I expect it to last the life of the house, like all the other houses I’ve lived in over the last 50 years. My present house was built cheap, and has concrete tiles, which aren’t as good as clay tiles and the roofing was done poorly at the junctions. And, like a shingle roof, sometimes a shingle gets damaged, but not like a shingle roof needs care after 15 years or replacement after 30. My mothers house is better than 50 years old, and we’ve replaced a couple of cracked tiles. ---
**Author:** ![Taggerung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c77e96/32.png) [@Taggerung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taggerung)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/174 "2019-07-17T03:03:32Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > Living in a city in the Midwest, I hope to someday buy a Craftsman bungalow, either restored or a fixer-upper, depending on my future budget. It seems like the only way to get a quality built home is to but one from the 1950s or earlier or have one custom built yourself (mega expensive). ---
**Author:** ![Taggerung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c77e96/32.png) [@Taggerung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taggerung)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/175 "2019-07-17T03:19:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Keep in mind, too, that the only houses that are hundreds of years old are the ones that were built solidly enough to last a couple centuries - you _don’t_ see the structures built at the same time that have since collapsed/burned/rotted/etc. So there is a selection process going on. I think quality was far more of a rule, and shoddy construction was far more of an exception compared to today- old growth wood, real siding, rock hard plaster walls, real 2x4s, real hardwood floors, no OSB, no drywall, and houses were frequently designed by architects and had great style , with detailed wood and masonry work unavailable today. Not a single one of these modern homes will make it a century. Most of them will start to self destruct in 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/176 "2019-07-17T03:28:59Z")
> [@Taggerung](#): > > I think quality was far more of a rule, and shoddy construction was far more of an exception compared to today- old growth wood, real siding, rock hard plaster walls, real 2x4s, real hardwood floors, no OSB, no drywall, > and houses were frequently designed by architects and had great style , with detailed wood and masonry work unavailable today. > > Not a single one of these modern homes will make it a century. Most of them will start to self destruct in 25 years. Why would you say that? What evidence do you have? Most houses (of any construction) will last indefinitely if they have proper maintenance (mostly, keeping there roof intact). The 2x4’s in a modern house will not spontaneously disintegrate (as long as termites are keep away), and neither will the drywall. ---
**Author:** ![Taggerung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c77e96/32.png) [@Taggerung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taggerung)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/177 "2019-07-17T03:43:23Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Why would you say that? What evidence do you have? > Most houses (of any construction) will last indefinitely if they have proper maintenance (mostly, keeping there roof intact). > The 2x4’s in a modern house will not spontaneously disintegrate (as long as termites are keep away), and neither will the drywall. These homes are not built to you last, to be handed down for generations like old homes were, they are essentially disposable consumer items. Do you believe houses built with the cheapest Chinese materials legally allowed, thrown together in the shortest timespan possible, built mostly by minimally skilled illegals, will last for a long time? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/178 "2019-07-17T03:46:56Z")
> [@Taggerung](#): > > These homes are not built to you last, to be handed down for generations like old homes were, they are essentially disposable consumer items. > Do you believe houses built with the cheapest Chinese materials legally allowed, thrown together in the shortest timespan possible, built mostly by minimally skilled illegals, will last for a long time? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/179 "2019-07-17T09:25:37Z")
> [@Taggerung](#): > > I think quality was far more of a rule, and shoddy construction was far more of an exception compared to today- old growth wood, real siding, rock hard plaster walls, real 2x4s, real hardwood floors, no OSB, no drywall, > and houses were frequently designed by architects and had great style , with detailed wood and masonry work unavailable today. > > Not a single one of these modern homes will make it a century. Most of them will start to self destruct in 25 years. Having done repair/rehab work on older homes… um… not always. Sure, there’s some good work in old houses but I’ve also seen some real crap stuff. Then there’s the old plumbing and, Og save us, the electrical. Ever try _repairing_ lath and plaster? Ugh. Quality drywall (yes, it exists) properly installed is just as good and a LOT easier to fix if some over-enthusiastic kid (or adult) punches a hole in it. As I noted - you don’t seen the poorly made homes from a century ago because none of them survived. It’s Sturgeon’s law, the only century-old homes you see are the 10% that weren’t crap. Oh, and the crap about “minimally skilled illegals” was uncalled for. First, plenty of native-born Americans in the building trades and being native-born does not magically make you competent - plenty of home grown idiots and incompetent workers. Second, being here without permission does not magically make you incompetent - plenty of skilled laborers have questionable or missing documentation. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460/180 "2019-07-17T09:54:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Keep in mind, too, that the only houses that are hundreds of years old are the ones that were built solidly enough to last a couple centuries - you _don’t_ see the structures built at the same time that have since collapsed/burned/rotted/etc. So there is a selection process going on. True, except that in the UK, we have whole town centres made up of houses which are at least two hundred years old. Check out [Bath](https://www.flickr.com/photos/124990637@N08/29914269923) some time. It isn’t that there’s just the odd well-preserved house left here or there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-houses-built-so-cheaply-poorly/836460.md?page=10)