# Why are American men generally more manly than European men? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563 "2013-06-21T16:30:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/41 "2013-06-21T20:15:38Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’ll add that James Bond in his Aston Martin is probably considered a heck of a lot more masculine than most other men in big 60s American muscle cars. And he preferred his (quite frankly) rinky-dink Walther to a real gun. Also, I don’t recall 007 drinking much beer, wearing jeans, eating big steaks or chili, either, but somehow nobody questions his absolute masculinity. Yeah, but the big-screen action movies these days are All-American _superhero_ movies: we want to see a growling Christian Bale slug it out with a brawny Tom Hardy, or a bare-chested Henry Cavill showing off his six-pack and wrapping guys up in choke-holds. Idris Elba! Michael Fassbender! Manly men! ---
**Author:** ![DeweyDecibel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DeweyDecibel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeweyDecibel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/42 "2013-06-21T20:15:50Z")
There’s this perception that men have to behave in the way you outlined in order to be considered “real men”. It’s cultural. Men who naturally have these interests/styles are encouraged to express it fully, men who do not are encouraged to act more in line with the stereotype. Now on to my own generalizations…this seems to be partly generational - more common among older men (lets say 50+). Probably just more culturally emphasized as they were growing up than it is now. Also partly class-based. Working class men often rely on “many” attributes for a living (building things, fixing things, using physical strength) so this style of masculinity is more valued. White-collar or professional men often rely on other types of skills for their livelihood so being stereotypically manly isn’t as important. Of course, generalizations, all individuals are different yadda yadda, but I do think there is a broad generational and class correlation. As a straight woman in her early 30s, I can tell you that much of what you listed as “manly” is a turn-off for me as well as many of my contemporaries. Guns? Not happening. Ugly white tennis shoes and baggy t-shirts? Not interested. Drive a big truck by choice (not necessary for work or some odd financial situation)? No. Sports don’t matter either way. Beer and red meat are fine, but if a guy won’t eat anything lighter or more interesting, then no. And I need to have real, deep conversations with him, so no strong silent types. Honestly, I love a man in a nicely fitting (not necessarily tight) pink shirt. I don’t know enough Europeans to say if this applies to them, but I’ve known plenty of American men who aren’t manly-by-this-definition and most don’t seem to feel any pressure to buy a truck and go hunting. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/43 "2013-06-21T20:34:44Z")
Not all Europeans are Italian. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/44 "2013-06-21T20:35:32Z")
Well, traditionally in Europe we liked attempting to fight each other to extinction roughly once every generation - or more than that, if we’re feeling frisky. However then some failed Austrian artist ruined everyone’s fun, so we’ve had roughly sixty years of solid peace between Europe’s major powers (except in the Balkans, where tiny genetic differences really fucking _matters_). As everyone knows, there’s nothing less manly than peace and pacifists. Americans of course haven’t yet got tired of a good ruck, so that explains it. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/45 "2013-06-21T20:37:40Z")
Well OP is banned, unsurprisingly. For anyone not aware, sparking “US v Europe” arguments is trolling 101. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/46 "2013-06-21T20:39:03Z")
_Fuck_ the Ford F-150! I drive an **F-250!** 😃 (and a Fiat) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/47 "2013-06-21T20:54:52Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’ll add that James Bond … preferred his (quite frankly) rinky-dink Walther to a real gun. Save me from myself–It has to have been in one of the first 3 films where he gets chewed out by M for some infraction regard the Walther. He was either carrying it instead of the standard issue, or was carrying something else instead of the required Walther. Which was it? Guess I know which box set I’m watching this weekend. I DO know he was NOT packing, nor was he expected to, an übermanly .44 6-banger. So clearly his penis was large. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/48 "2013-06-21T20:57:39Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Save me from myself–It has to have been in one of the first 3 films where he gets chewed out by M for some infraction regard the Walther. He was either carrying it instead of the standard issue, or was carrying something else instead of the required Walther. Which was it? Guess I know which box set I’m watching this weekend. > > I DO know he was NOT packing, nor was he expected to, an übermanly .44 6-banger. So clearly his penis was large. Not thinking of the scene in Dr. No are you, [he hands a Beretta M1934 to Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU98uP7pXA8) and is forced to use instead the Walther PPK (later his standard)? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/49 "2013-06-21T21:11:35Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Wasn’t in Dr. No, [he hands a Beretta M1934 to Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU98uP7pXA8) and is forced to use instead the Walther PPK (later his standard)? That’s exactly the scene. Thank you. It still warms my heart he prefers accuracy over stopping power–one good small hit being better than a bunch of big misses. Of course, he also hits a bunch of misses as a matter of course. \* rim shot \* ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/50 "2013-06-21T21:13:00Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Save me from myself–It has to have been in one of the first 3 films where he gets chewed out by M for some infraction regard the Walther. He was either carrying it instead of the standard issue, or was carrying something else instead of the required Walther. Which was it? Guess I know which box set I’m watching this weekend. > > I DO know he was NOT packing, nor was he expected to, an übermanly .44 6-banger. So clearly his penis was large. I’m pretty sure in one of the books (ask a European what ‘books’ are, if you’re American), there’s a scene where Q and M make him upgrade to a sidearm with more stopping power. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/51 "2013-06-21T21:24:57Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > (ask a European what ‘books’ are, if you’re American) Do I need to check into a _sanitorium_ to get this burn looked at? 😃 The whole James Bond thing is irrelevant to this thread anyway. Connery was a Scotsman–a real man who could’ve carried a magnum as well as sport a substantial…portion size. No mere European, he. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/52 "2013-06-21T21:25:00Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I’m pretty sure in one of the books (ask a European what ‘books’ are, if you’re American), there’s a scene where Q and M make him upgrade to a sidearm with more stopping power. Which itself was inspired by a [correspondence](http://web.archive.org/web/20130121072645/http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/06/may-i-suggest-that-mr-bond-be-armed.html) between Fleming and firearms expert Geoffrey Boothroyd (who was honoured by a namesake in the films and books, as the **Q** uartermaster), where he described Bond’s firearm in the novels, the miniscule [Beretta 418](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_418) (the farthest you can can get from overcompensating Magnums and Desert Eagles) as a ‘lady’s gun’. ---
**Author:** ![chewsick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@chewsick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chewsick)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/53 "2013-06-21T21:50:27Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I’m pretty sure in one of the books (ask a European what ‘books’ are, if you’re American), there’s a scene where Q and M make him upgrade to a sidearm with more stopping power. FTR Ian Fleming didn’t write “books.” He wrote glurge fanfic about his glory days. You, as a Doper, are certainly familiar with this genre. Deleuze wrote books. Couturat wrote books. Descartes wrote some. Thackeray and Fleming and Dickens wrote spy novels. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/54 "2013-06-21T22:21:19Z")
> [@chewsick](#): > > FTR Ian Fleming didn’t write “books.” > > He wrote glurge fanfic about his glory days. > > You, as a Doper, are certainly familiar with this genre. > > Deleuze wrote books. Couturat wrote books. Descartes wrote some. > > Thackeray and Fleming and Dickens wrote spy novels. Well, you learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![chewsick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@chewsick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chewsick)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/55 "2013-06-21T22:28:47Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Well, you learn something new every day. Damn right. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/56 "2013-06-22T03:36:19Z")
> [@chewsick](#): > > All the “European” (whatever that means) stereotypes could be applied to US hipsters or whatever they call themselves. I guess Brooklyn is part of Europe now. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/57 "2013-06-22T04:03:29Z")
> [@chewsick](#): > > Speaking as a pretty macho American with pretty wimpy tastes in music and literature (French impressionist music and poetry) and food, but I feel right at home anywhere in the country in France, without having to mince around trying to “pass” for a “European” – these guys fucking butcher hogs for sport and drink their blood and the women bring the men wine, and they don’t drink it out of teacups either. They drink it out of the skulls of their enemies! Probably why they surrendered in WWII, they were full up on skulls. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/58 "2013-06-22T05:11:25Z")
Actually I think that the op slipped up, when he forgot to mention bathing irregulary, and farting loudly and often (And then laughing uproariously) in public places ! I mean they’re both things that real men do right ? And now I’m off to enjoy a nice, small white wine with my quiche, while I flip through my scrapbook of kitten photos . I hope that theres some ice dancing on tv tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/59 "2013-06-22T05:38:21Z")
Baseball is manly? Explain. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563/60 "2013-06-22T05:44:06Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > Baseball is manly? Explain. What’s more manly than whacking leathery balls with a phallic object? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-american-men-generally-more-manly-than-european-men/661563.md?page=4)