Why are Americans so disliked worldwide?

Great Debates
61

Slithy Tove,

How right you are!

Mr Zambezi,

But that is exactly what they were arguing: police less corrupt than Mexico, medicines more available than in sub-Saharan Africa, prisons better than Turkey.

The computer was invented by Charles Babbage, the lightbulb by Benjamin Franklin, the TV by John Logie Baird and the telephone by Alexander Graham Bell. Spot the odd one out? That’s right: Franklin. The others were British.

The civil liberties argument is precisely the kind of jingoistic nonsense I’m talking about. You blithely state that you have more civil liberties than me because it’s axiomatic to you. If you knew the first thing about any legal or political system other than your own, you’d know what garbage that kind of statement is.

So tell me what civil liberties you enjoy that I do not.

62

Canada is bigger in area, as well, but not population.

63

I’m not real sure if I’ve been insulted here or not, but I’d like to make an addition.

I have Canadian friends and have been aware of Canada since high school, as well as aware of some Canadian history and the geography of Canada. I visited the Bahamas, traveled to Mexico, went to the Philippines, had the opportunity to work with some French people here in the States, and went to Jamaica.

I am aware of the histories of the UK, Africa, China, Japan, and actually, most of the nations in the world, having found international historical facts interesting and curious about the differences between other nations and the States. I am aware of various technological advances and discoveries once thought to be strictly American that actually were created or discovered in foreign countries and simply improved upon in the States.

I am aware of great philosophers, thinkers, artists, and writers of foreign countries and of the very many religious beliefs across the world. I AM ALSO AWARE of just how many great people from foreign counties came to the States for freedom to create, to think, to live, to work, to play and to dream.

As has been stated before, we have a massive influx of refugees and people from other nations seeking citizenship here within the US for the very freedoms we have. It has been pointed out by other posters that we are not perfect, but we are a damn sight better than the majority of the existing nations in the world.

I happened upon books written post WW2 by English and other authors, where in Americans were mentioned and were considered the problem solvers of the world. I cannot condone the Ugly American mentality of boorish tourists who obviously have too much money and have been used to having their way far too often, but that is a poor sampling of the average American because if they can AFFORD to tour foreign countries frequently, then they are certainly not Joe Average, who works 9 to 5, worries about his bills, his kids and is lucky to visit Disney Land once every three years.

Those in the news who spend thousands of dollars adopting a child in Russia, thousands in travel costs to visit there, thousands in costs to get the paper work done and ignore the many orphans in the States are NOT normal Americans. Those who take a year off work and travel Europe, and have the money to party their way through it are not Normal Americans. Those Americans who insist on sailing to Cuba, which is proscribed by the States, gaining entry through Jamaica to avoid American legal snarls are NOT normal Americans because they have far too much money and a limited view of the world.

Unfortunately, THESE idiots are those which most Europeans meet.

A friend of mine from Canada used to like to come down here and brag about his job, which paid him a small fortune to stay in a lonely rail road outpost and count trains. He liked to buy American goods and ship them back to Canada. One day, he was drunk and wrecked his car, injuring no one but a telephone pole. Within 12 hours he had fled back to Canada before the local law could file any form of charges against him.

The French harbor Ira Einheart, the known murderer, and protect him from American justice because he was found guilty for the brutal murder of his girl friend of the 60s, who he used to beat the hell out of, while he was playing guru to the masses. We MIGHT kill the son of a bitch, so the French have been delaying his extradition because they do not believe in execution. He lives as a free man, enjoying all of the benefits of his wealthy friends in France, while his girl friend moulders in her grave. He had kept her body packed in a trunk in a locked closet in his house for a year after killing her because she wanted to leave him. Yet the French produced and ran the most brutal penal system of all time for ages and only reluctantly shut it down not all that long ago. THAT was OK to torture prisoners and let them die of attrition but not to execute them.

Strange philosophy. We have laws against inhumane treatment of prisoners.

In the great potato famine of Ireland, the Irish starved and died by the thousands while British land lords threw them off of their rental property for not being able to pay the rent and Britain itself had a bumper crop of food which it sold to other nations, ignoring the starving Irish.

Sweden, like Sentinel stated, was playing all sides against each other in the second world war and making a fortune, so was Spain.

In India, one of the greatest peace keepers of all time, Ghandi, was murdered because he pissed off a religious sect, who was afraid he might gain too much power. Today there, husbands can kill wives without fear of much chance of prosecution. The average Indian lives in poverty with few resources.

In the Middle East, the HUSBAND has all of the rights. His wife is a second class citizen.

In Africa, murders on the street are more common than in America, and the killers often take time to burn the body where it lies to avoid detection, ignoring the witnesses who rarely say anything. Plus, in the political turmoil, ancient tribes still fight each other over ancient rivalries and even the degree of ‘blackness’ each has.

In Japan, there is a thriving trade in little girls or teen aged women SELLING their worn underwear to companies, who package them up and sell them to Japanese men! There is also a business which deals in buying and selling the saliva of young girls to Japanese men. A nation of potential pedophiles? Plus, Japan is noted for treating its prisoners of war like animals, just like the Nazi’s treated the Jews, only marginally better. They did not gas thousands of American, British and Australian prisoners to death. They beat them to death instead or worked them under inhumane conditions until they died.

The Saudi’s like chopping off the hand of a thief with no painkiller and no optional medical attention afterwards. In Singapore, one of the cleanest nations in the world, spitting on the street is a crime, but they will cane you publicly with enough force to split your ass open down through the meat.

In Turkey, even with their thriving drug trade, a foreigner can be arrested and thrown in jail if suspected of having drugs and can go for months before getting a lawyer and having to live in brutal conditions.

In Syria, Iran, Iraq and Pakistan, if you are not Moslem, you are dirt. People violating some religious rules can be legally stoned to death and female circumcision still goes on, even though they say they are trying to stop it. There are NO HUMAN or CIVIL rights in those nations.

I could go on, but this is long enough.

So, you have a problem with my pro-American attitude? I think I have many real good reasons for it.

I also own a gun and am a damn good shot with it but have never had to use it on anyone. I believe in the right of owning weapons, however, I do not believe in the right to own military style weapons. I also like the fact that, as a woman, I have a powerful voice in this land, if raped, I have the law to catch, prosecute and jail the bastard and the legal right to sue his ass when he gets out of jail, if he does. If my husband or boyfriend beats me up, I have the right to put his ass in jail and make him pay.

Beat up your wife in Italy and see what happens. Nothing. Do it in France and the police will probably figure she deserved it. We all have the right of an education here but in many nations only those who can pay get educated. We have the right to choose and practice our religions as we choose, but in several nations, you do not. We have freedom of speech, not matter how annoying, but in 43 nations, you have to watch what you print and say publicly.

Yeah, I got an attitude about America. I like it. Ya’ll don’t like us? Kiss my American ass! :smiley:

64

I think what this all boils down to is that the Americans who are stupid and give other Americans bad names don’t take the time to learn about the cultures of the places they visit. They usually haven’t read up on how the cultures of each country works and so they make huge mistakes. Many Americans expect everything to be the same as back home also and have limited views on the world. One thing I dislike about tourist agencies and tour groups is they tend to trivialize the cultures of each country and make them seem quaint or cute (like the current trend to go visit Bali).

Hell, that same attitude happens [B}within** the US. I have friends at my University who are from LA. They always complain that this area doesn’t know how to drive, that we have no idea what traffic is, how bad our malls suck. They think no other place is as good as LA. They think no place can ever compare to LA. They also complain about how cold it is here in summer. Most haven’t taken the time to learn anything about this area at all.

I always find myself reminding them that this just isn’t LA, that they are trying to compare apples and oranges. I also mention that if they don’t like it here, they are free to leave.

Also, tourists everywhere are disliked (as some of the other posters have already said). Around here, we find tourists amusing because they don’t dress sensibly (in summer, they come in shorts and summer clothes, while it’s foggy and cold). They often crowd the shopping areas (quite a few travel in huge packs it seems), and often do silly things, like standing in the middle of the street to take a picture of the old cannery buildings on cannery row, or standing at the edges of the street corners holding up traffic that think they’re going to cross the street, or nearly causing traffic accidents (not all do that, mind you).
And to the silly Icelander: Your comments about America are as prejudiced as the attitude those stupid Americans you so love to despise. Step out of your icy box bjorn.

It’s worth the risk of burning, to have a second chance…

65

Lordy, lordy, NightGirl, it doesn’t get any better.

There are far too many errors, both of fact and reasoning, in your post for me to deal with them systematically. I tried that in my previous post, which you clearly didn’t understand, or you wouldn’t have come straight back and made all the same errors again.

I’ll make my point again, and I’ll try to make it simpler this time.

Historical wrongdoing by other nations proves nothing. I could bang on about My Lai and Iran-Contra, but it wouldn’t prove anything. I could mention the fact that African-Americans have only had the right to equal treatment under the law since the 1960s and that the KKK is still thriving in some parts of the US. I could mention the fact that the USA is the world’s biggest consumer of illegal narcotics, funding that South American drug cartels that you or another poster was complaining about earlier. So some other countries did some bad things in the past. So did the USA. So what?

It may surprise you to learn that other countries consider electrocuting convicts to be inhumane. The death penalty is contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights, to which both France and the UK are signatories. By my reckoning, this is a negative mark against the US’s human rights record. It’s all a question of relative values.

My point is that the fact that the situation in some other countries is worse in some respects than in the US doesn’t mean that the US is the best country in the world.

Yes, the USA offers a high standard of living and a high degree of personal freedom. I’ll say it again: so does every democratic, developed country. So what makes you so special?

When I said earlier that somebody would compare the US standard of living favourably to that of Chad, I was sort of joking. Now somebody compares the condition of women’s rights favourably to that in the Middle East. Oh, the humanity!

66

Oh, sheesh. I don’t really have anything new or howling insightful to say, because Tom nailed a lot of the essentials early on. But what the heckers…

I don’t know what the big trauma is about envying other countries. I’m American to the core and happy to be so, but you bet I envy and admire other countries for some things. It’d be a damned bland and dreary world that was the same all over, and much of what’s “best” is wholly subjective. Bigotry is just as ugly, stupid and sterile as chavinism.

BTW, there’s a difference b/w chauvinism and patriotism. I find no problem and much to admire in loyalty to home, country and people. Patriotism recognizes that other people love their countries as well; chavinism doesn’t.

I’ve been suprised and disgusted by isolated examples of unthinking acid sprays of anti-Americanism. No, we are certainly not above reproach or examination, but to some degree bashing Americans is PC in a way that many nationalities avoid.

Some Americans invite it; through defensiveness or excess pride or whatever. But it is still bigotry, and wrong. It’s easily identified: subsitute casual cruelty applied to some other nationalit and see how wrong it sounds. The “tall poppy” analogy was apt; we’re prime targets but the underlying attitude is still wrong, no matter the people being stereotyped.

I don’t think it’s a matter of other people being jealous at all. One observation though;
Americans by and large are genuinely tolerant and encouraging of other people. Casual dismissal of others based on nationality/accent whatever isn’t the norm. It’s the thing I like best about “us”. If someone succeeds or fails, the impulse is to cheer–even if it’s for the next try. We can be noisy, crass and blatant, but our usual impulse is kind. That’s not to say that impulse is necessarily well thought out or apt.

This disturbs me. Jingoism is just as ugly as bigotry. Sweeping judgments about “countries” are blanket dismissals of people, histories, ways of life are just wrong. It’s wrong whether it’s based on sterotypes or misguided “us or them” views.

Master of the obvious,
Veb

Veb

67

Thanks, TomH, for your appreciation a few posts back. Actually, immediately after I’d posted (there must be an e-chat term for what the French call esprit escalier - “staircase wit” - that ssnappy response that occurs to you only after you’re out the door) I was struck by this thought: I could go to a foreign country and take abuse from the natives for something in which I had no involvement - My Lai, the Bay of Pigs, etc., but if I have a heart attack due to something I personally did do such as smoke or eat bacon or ski like a dummy, some of these same natives will bust ass to bring me back to health, and in some countries ther won’t even be a bill! Go figure.

Your deep sea diving suit is ready, me brave lad.

68

… I especially like the part where NightGirl dismisses anyone who can afford to actually see the world as “not a normal American” but rather an “idiot” with “too much money and a limited view of the world” (the irony in this last bit is killing me). So if the Europeans were to meet “normal” Americans like you, NightGirl, they’d like us all better?

Don’t bet the farm.

69

TomH, this is a long thread and I’ve been skimming the last few posts, but if you’re still interested I’d like to go back to the idea that many nations are jealous of Americans.
I don’t think “jealous” is quite the right word. I think of the situation as being analogous to the British-French relationship of the past two centuries. Both countries started to build overseas empires at roughly the same time, but the French were distracted by their Revolution, then the Napoleonic wars. By the time they could devote energy to foreign adventuring again(outside of Europe I mean) there was THE BRITISH EMPIRE to contend with. In other words, there wasn’t really any way to catch up. Britain had attained the state of being the most powerful, dynamic, influential nation on earth and France was, in many practical ways, eclipsed. The French didn’t exactly hate the British for it, but there was, and still is, a certain resentment that stems from that gap. I mean the gap in cultural influence.

We, as a British offshoot, have inherited the attenuated offspring of that resentment on the part of the French (which is why they aren’t quite sure who to condescend to more - Yanks or Brits). And of course, as the U.S. has supplanted Britain as the world’s cultural…oh, what’s the word…“center” isn’t quite right - but I hope you know what I mean - we have earned French resentment in our own right. Of course I’m only picking on the French because I started the example with them. Really, I think there’s a lot of the same force at work shaping European attitudes towards the U.S. generally, though it varies from place to place and time to time. I think this is why Americans are less “ugly” to the nations of SA and Australia than to Europeans, since those nations were never really at the center of the world stage anyway. At least my impression is that Americans are less derided in those places; I’ve been to Australia but not SA. I suspect we are probably not considered awkward lummoxes in Africa either, although I confess I have very little clear impression of public opinion on anything in Africa outside of English-speaking South Africa and the Islamic nations.

One more point. Someone made the very good analogy between the way Americans are treated in some countries and the way blacks were treated at one time here (and still are, though I like to think it is lessening with time). The fact that people are not accosting you with their belittling opinions does not really mean that they are not looking down on you for your nationality. Underneath, there is a current of mild animosity that generally only comes out at the level of the wider culture, or if there is some kind of interpersonal stress. Usually you only see it in politics or the media. So all the anecdotes of Americans who were treated fine overseas only go so far for me. I think it would be naive to take that as evidence of how an entire culture views Americans, just as it would be naive to take anecdotal evidence of anti-American bigotry as reflecting the national perspective.

70

Oh yes, and I, too, think Mary Hart’s Legs is a terrific handle.

71

“Aside from Russia, we are the biggest single nation in the world, a concept that some of us forget when we go over seas and can drive across a country in a day. Our land is one of the most varied in the world, with different topographical features scattered across several different climatic zones ranging from the Grand Canyon to the swamps.”

A perfect example of my above statement. Americans are unaware of anything unAmerican.
CANADA is the second largest country-not US.
Thanks for the proof Sentinal.

72

TomH

Sorry, old man, but I’ve been there, there and there, seen that, that and that and still prefer the US of A. By the way, I heartily support the execution of murderers, finding no reason to spend a couple of million each keeping them alive and well for the rest of their long lives, supplying 3 tasty meals a day, free medical care, clothing and entertainment.

I have no problem at all in exterminating mad dogs.

In Germany I enjoyed Quark mit Pellkartoffein and discussed a friends problem child with them and found that the social welfare system there would not get involved with a 16 year old, pot smoking, knife carrying, belligerent boy. I also observed the very expensive cost of living there, of which 25% of my friends pay went into JUST taxes and health insurance. I noticed the high price of food and gas as well as rent. She was bidding on one of the 3,000 green cards to get into America.

She pays $20 for 60 Centrum Vitamin pills – something I can get at Walmart for $5. Plus she is required to be responsible for her kid until he is 27 and if he gets welfare, she has to PAY IT BACK! Plus, there are no social services to help her pay for his schooling or living. She once lost her apartment key and called in a locksmith to open her apartment. Here, that would be about $50. There it was $150. They also have just as big a drug problem over there in the schools as here.

She is also a fan of rock 'n roll, Elvis, Oldie Goldies, Beach Boys and the Bee Gees. Plus children there are allowed to watch all of the porn they wish.

Interesting, is it not?

In New Zealand, I enjoyed a big mack. Only $3.95. Then I found out that beef is about $6 a pound there in the grocery stores, green peppers about $1.00 each, and generally, food prices are higher than in the US. Now, the power bills there are about half for the average person and fuel prices are lower. While there I had pizza, visited Kentucky Fried Chicken, drove past Burger King and understood that a Walmart was going to come into town as we bought Cokes. Then we discussed the space shuttle, Lewinsky, Clinton and when were the Americans going to go in and beat the shit out of Miloslovec.

In England I visited Dools for a malt, and Madam Marmalade, then visited McDonalds and KFC, watched my companions buy up American cigarettes sold over there, which they prefer, found it hot and sunny in London, learned what ‘bloody wankers’ are and downed a few pints. We discussed American Nukes, bitched about socialized medicine, I gave them some tapes of a radio show from America that they like, and went to buy NIKES with them.

I learned about the real Muslim faith from a friend in Egypt and found it interesting and wondered about the fanatics in Iraq. I did find out that they were not happy with the American spies in the UN weapons inspectors of Iran, but were chagrined about the Egyptian spies we’d discovered over here, along with a couple of British ones. Plus they were a bit irritated that a British guy, Richard Butler, suggested hitting Iraq based on false information.

I found the digging of the famous Channel Tunnel fascinating, especially since it had been put off because England was paranoid about being attacked through it. (Like a few dynamight charges wouldn’t solve that.)

Through all of the countries I’ve been to, I’ve found some nice aspects and some bad, but, all in all, I prefer the States no matter what you bad mouth us about. Recently, documents have been turning up that are starting to indicate that during WW2, Churchill deliberately withheld information about the Pearl Harbor pending attack and the potential of subs being in the area of the Lusitania because he wanted America to be drawn into the war because the Brits were starting to loose it.

America went to the moon, developed a shuttle and promptly opened the door for any nation choosing to join us in exploration of space. A. Clark, an American, invented the communications satellite, which everyone uses now.

Yes, England invented the first computer – and then sat on the discovery for 20 or 30 years, doing little with it, while the Americans developed their own and gave it to the world.

Yes, Alexander G. Bell was SCOTTISH, but he came to American to develop and create his phone.

By the way, the Internet was developed by the American military. So were desk top PCs.

I’m not real sure if we have forgiven you guys for the Beatles yet and we haven’t made up our minds about the Spice Girls.

Still, I’ll take America for all of its flaws and problems because at least we are working on them and our freedom of speech is NOT all that common in other ‘civilized’ countries of the world. Laws protect our human and civil rights, something not found in France, Spain, Japan or, to some extent, England.

I do agree with NightGirl44 concerning ‘normal’ Americans v/s ‘rich, selfish Americans’ because I’ve run into far to many of the prior overseas and kicked a few of their asses in bar fights. Yes, I believe that Europeans would accept the ‘normal’ Americans better than the other type because the normals are the working guys, just like most of the Europeans.

By the way, in Arabia, NEVER sit with your feet propped up, showing the soles to your host. THAT is a mighty insult.

What makes us better? The fact that we ARE a blend of all of the people of the world and most of the religions. We are a hodge podge of different ideas and various ways of looking at things.

Personally, I like the Australians. They started out as criminal exiles just like we did though I do not understand their maniacal fondness for alligators, which I absolutely hate. But then, they don’t understand how we can prevent a man from using his own land if a single Spotted Owl lives on it.

Say all you want about the US, but if you guys get your butts in a sling, guess who you’ll call to come and get you out of it?

Americans.

Know what? We’ll come also.

73

Okay, Sentinel, time to sleep it off now.

74

Man, Sentinal! I don’t agree with Legs that Americans are a bunch of idiots, but you sure aren’t helping to dispel that impression.

You’re mixing up two wars here.

Clark is British and lives in Sri Lanka.

A myth. It was put off because it made no sense, financially. Still doesn’t.

Butler is Australian.

See, Legs! Only some of us are unaware of the rest of the world.

75

In other words, it has the same reputation it has over here in the US.

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O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com

76

I think that NightGirl, Sentinel and Rainbowcsr have provided a fairly unassailable demonstration that some Americans make themselves disliked by shooting their mouths off about subjects on which they are almost wholly ignorant, refusing to see reason and behaving ungraciously when they are politely corrected.

They have also all failed to see the difference between what is good and worthy and what is prevelant. The fact that American food and music covers the globe needs to be seen against the fact that much of it is crap. Frankly, if my country were exporting Britney Spears CDs and McDonald’s food, I’d be ashamed, not proud. (Yes, I know, the Spice Girls). And I’m sorry about the Beatles as well, they really sucked, didn’t they? The Bee Gees, by the way, are also British (from Manchester) but emigrated to Ausrtalia. I’m not sure what Sentinel’s point was.

If we were to look at quality rather than * quantity of exported goods (both material and cultural), the US might not look so good.

APB9999, I think you’re right. I think that the kind of resentment (note, not jealousy) which Americans experience overseas is also experienced by us sometimes as well. Sadly, we also have idiots like some of the posters in this thread who know half of bugger-all about anything outside their own back yard but still feel free to slag it off.

And Sentinel, I’m glad you learned what a bloody wanker is. It saves me the effort of thinking of another term you might understand.

77

I realise that posing this question will be an act of the vainest optimism, but Sentinel said

This reflects things which a number of other posters have said about America being a “more free” country than other liberal democracies.

So tell me how. Do they not have the same civil rights protection in France that you have? Is Spain a totalitarian dictatorship, but we just hadn’t noticed (don’t mention Franco, I mean now)? What civil rights do you have that I don’t?

I am genuinely curious. Can anybody justify this widely-asserted belief?

[Note to Sentinel, et al: “Justify” does not mean “repeat”.]

78

If America is so free, why can’t we travel to Cuba?

If America is so free, why do police break down doors and roust people out of bed in the middle of the night; sometimes on manufactured evidence?

If America is so free, why were peaceful protesters in Seattle OUTSIDE of the prohibited area attacked by police?

If America is so free, why was there a “prohibited area” in Seattle at all?

79

TomH-

I agree with almost everything you have written. Some of the other posters here are making me seriously consider renouncing my US citizenship. :wink: Some of us Americans are boorish (clearly), but we are not all that way.

Regarding your question about what rights we have that you don’t, I don’t know of any. As you have pointed out, our legal system (and our legal protections) are based upon the British model.

The only real difference I can think of might be in the area of free speech. I understand British libel laws are much more strict (plaintiff-friendly) in Britain, which might cause a British citizen to be somewhat more circumspect about what he says or prints about others than his U.S. counterpart. I will leave it to others to argue whether that is a good or a bad thing.

80

Sentinal,
Ignorance reigns supreme.
Bell was a Canadian citizen before he travelled to the states. He left the US regularily to get away from what he considered to be a suffocating ,and at times untolerable American culture.

And to the rest of the bunch,
Please do not draw from my commentary that I dislike Americans as a whole. I’ve met many and had some very good relationships. My OP suggests that my experience not only shows a general worldwide resentment of American culture but as well, Americans apologizing for their own kind.
Some American do however stick out like an avulsed thumb, eh SENTINAL?!