# Why are Americans...what's the technical term...dumb as shit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756 "2012-12-11T22:10:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/61 "2012-12-13T15:21:54Z")
> [@glaeken](#): > > In my opinion it’s not being dumb it’s a lack of general knowledge of non US things and also a lack of interest in not having that knowledge. Most of us, due to commitments here in the US and the air travel expense involved, aren’t going to visit Indonesia. Most of us will never even visit Canada or Mexico which could hypothetically be reached by several days of driving. This is a big place and most of us will never even be able to visit all of the US. Frankly, a knowledge of the customs in Indonesia or the UK or Uzbekistan isn’t something that pays great dividends here for the most part. Yes, knowledge for its own sake etc. etc. etc., but how, in your opinion, would it “improve” the average American to know what system of government they use in Tajikstan or who their biggest pop star is? ---
**Author:** ![glaeken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@glaeken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glaeken)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/62 "2012-12-13T15:36:25Z")
I think it’s just a question really of why people tend to call American’s dumb. It’s virtually always about not knowing what people consider to be basic general knowledge (which is a big fat variable based on where you happen to come from). I am not saying American’s actually are dumb but just trying to get across my impression of how the idea comes about. Of course we can discuss the why’s and wherefores of it but I think what we are more dealing with here is a stereo type and such things don’t need to have much basis in reality. I am sure you can actually find plenty of ignorance of basic general knowledge in pretty much any country and have seen plenty of interviews of people on UK streets that show shocking gaps in knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/63 "2012-12-13T15:38:06Z")
Apostrophe usage, for example. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![glaeken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@glaeken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glaeken)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/64 "2012-12-13T15:43:25Z")
If we were basing intelligence measurement on apostrophe usage I would be in trouble. I have just about mastered the use of the full stop. Techniques more advanced than that are beyond me 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/65 "2012-12-13T15:46:40Z")
Stuff like this comes up in Canada all the time. “Americans are so dumb they don’t even know who the Prime Minister of Canada is!” Herp, herp, herp. To which my response is, “Who is the President of Mexico?” And of course no one knows the fucking answer. It’s really easy to soak up American culture through osmosis; you don’t even have to read the news at all to know a thousand things about the US. Americans aren’t any more insular than people in most other large countries, but the culture from America is exported throughout the world, so people who know lots about America are insulted by Americans knowing nothing about them. ---
**Author:** ![furdmort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@furdmort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furdmort)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/66 "2012-12-13T15:52:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Apostrophe usage, for example. 😉 If that’s the criteria then we’re gonna have to put Germany on the “dumb as shit” list. Even though the apostrophe isn’t often used in German, for some reason the American “apostrophe means look out, here comes an S” bug has taken hold here, too. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/67 "2012-12-13T16:06:36Z")
I’m going to repost something I wrote about 9 months ago, in the thread “[Why is the US behind educationally?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=643209)”. I added a link to a referenced article, but other than that, the post is the same. … There’s a lot to this question and I think even the assumption that the US is “far behind” other countries is erroneous and based upon a simplistic reading and reporting of tables. Disregarding popular press stories meant to sell magazine articles, the 2009 PISA report stated: > [@](#): > > U.S. 15-year-olds had an average score of 500 on the combined reading literacy scale, not measurably different from the average score of 493 for the 34 OECD countries (table 3). Among the 33 other OECD countries, 6 countries had higher average scores than the United States, 13 had lower average scores, and 14 had average scores not measurably different from the U.S. average. Among the 64 other OECD countries, non-OECD countries, and other education systems, 9 had higher average scores than the United States, 39 had lower average scores, and 16 had average scores not measurably different from the U.S. average. > > On the reflect and evaluate subscale, U.S. 15-year-olds had a higher average score than the OECD average (512 versus 494). The U.S. average was lower than that of 5 OECD countries and higher than that of 23 OECD countries; it was lower than that of 8 countries and other education systems and higher than that of 51 countries and other education systems overall. On the other two subscales—access and retrieve and integrate and interpret—the U.S. average was not measurably different from the OECD average (492 versus 495 and 495 versus 493, respectively). > **[2011004.pdf](https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/2011004.pdf)** > > 7.33 MB (PDF, page 22) So, statistically speaking, for reading scores, 8-9 countries score higher (depending upon your sample (OECD vs. non-OECD)), 39-51 scored lower, and the US wasn’t statistically different from 15-odd countries (including the UK, Germany, Australia, Denmark, and Hungary who all ranked below the US in a number of measurements.) This is far different from the usual reportage which breathlessly has the US 17th or 34th or whatever. Even in mathematics, while it is true that the US scores lower in relation to other countries compared to reading levels, statistically the difference between countries is not as horrible as the press likes to make one believe: > [@](#): > > U.S. 15-year-olds had an average score of 487 on the mathematics literacy scale, which was lower than the OECD average score of 496 (table 7).9 Among the 33 other OECD countries, 17 countries had higher average scores than the United States, 5 had lower average scores, and 11 had average scores not measurably different from the U.S. average. Among the 64 other OECD countries, non-OECD countries, and other education systems, 23 had higher average scores than the United States, 29 had lower average scores, and 12 had average scores not measurably different from the U.S. average score. > **[2011004.pdf](https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/2011004.pdf)** > > 7.33 MB (PDF, page 32) The mathematically-challenged popular press reports blasts that the “US ranks 25th in math!” without bothering to consider if there is any true difference between the US score of 487 and the UK score of 492 - the US is behind and that’s that! The fact that the US is behind by a difference of 1%, and whether that 1% is meaningful… well, that’s not discussed. In addition, a lot of people use these rankings, look at policy differences between the US and higher-ranked countries, find one or two policies to their liking, and say - “See? That’s why we’re failing - we’re not like Country X in that the US doesn’t…” However, they don’t take into account the fact that countries ranked lower than the US also have the same policy and policy goals as some countries ranked higher, or that countries ranked higher than the US have differing policy goals than other countries ranked higher than the US. For example, [the above Atlantic article](http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=ce270d38103a630c3181db372a25a052&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fboards.straightdope.com%2Fsdmb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D643209%26highlight%3Dpisa&v=1&libid=1355414413027&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fnational%2Farchive%2F2011%2F12%2Fwhat-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success%2F250564%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fboards.straightdope.com%2Fsdmb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D643209%26highlight%3Dpisa%26page%3D2&title=Why%20is%20the%20US%20behind%20educationally%3F%20-%20Straight%20Dope%20Message%20Board&txt=What%20Americans%20Keep%20Ignoring%20About%20Finland's%20School%20Success&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13554147593002) about Finland’s lofty goal of “equality” and their thesis is that this “equality” is what drives Finnish scores. But this thesis, that “equality” is the answer, isn’t proven - South Korea has a number of private schools and ranks higher than Finland in reading and math. If “equality” is the answer, then why does S. Korea do better with a lesser emphasis on it than Finland? Anyway, I can go on and on, but I don’t think I answered the OP’s question at all, so I’ll get off my horse and go back to being stupid or whatever it is that we Americans do. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/68 "2012-12-13T16:09:09Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > You think that’s bad… I was asked by an American if we British celebrated the 4th of July. 😕:dubious:☹ There’s being insular for all the good reasons rehearsed in various answers and there’s dumb-assery like this. This isn’t any understandable lack of knowledge stemming from size etc. This is plain old dumb-ass stupidity that should embarrass the questioner into silence before the words escape their lips. But dumb-asses are everywhere and a seperate issue from whether the education system is producing the goods or whether superstition and anti-science quakery plays too much of a role in decision-making. It does seem to me that any education system that in any way panders to creationism is handicapping itself and there is a very disturbing level of anti-science nuttery at the highest level of politics which doesn’t speak well either. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/69 "2012-12-13T16:48:44Z")
One observation: there are indeed many Americans who know little or nothing about other countries, and are absurdly PROUD of their ignorance. On the other hand, there are many Europeans who THINK they know a lot about the USA. In reality, they know very little, and much of what they “know” is wrong. But they’re both absurdly proud of their “knowledge” and resentful that Americans don’t bother to learn as much false information about them as they have about America. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/70 "2012-12-13T17:15:03Z")
I’m sure there are many Europeans who are also PROUD of their ignorance of America. Unfortunately, they don’t come to American message boards to proclaim this ignorance, so we never hear from them… ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/71 "2012-12-13T17:21:37Z")
> [@sahirrnee](#): > > Damn I must be dumb because I didn’t know we put a man on Mars or that that Germany bombed Pearl Harbor. You need to become more aquainted with the classics 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/72 "2012-12-13T20:56:50Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > You think that’s bad… I was asked by an American if we British celebrated the 4th of July. 😕:dubious:: You mean you guys don’t celebrate finally getting rid of our sorry asses? I thought you’d be ecstatic. 😕 😃 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/73 "2012-12-13T21:00:00Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > You think that’s bad… I was asked by an American if we British celebrated the 4th of July. 😕:dubious:☹ What a stupid question. July 4th is a day for people all over the world to celebrate the birth of America! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/74 "2012-12-13T21:06:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What a stupid question. July 4th is a day for people all over the world to celebrate the birth of America! Actually, it’s not as stupid a question as is being made out here. I’ve actually traveled around quite a bit in the world, and at least in the last 10 years I HAVE seen celebrations of the 4th in other countries. And [here](http://voices.yahoo.com/july-4th-celebrations-around-world-europe-389536.html) is an example…in England. 😛 > [@](#): > > England. > > Celebration in Feltwell. A carnival takes place each year, as well as pony rides, food stands, live bands and dj’s. The fireworks start at 10 pm. The cool thing about this event is that the British are joining the Americans for celebrating their independence! Last year, the event hosted over 22,000 people, at the Norfolk military installation. Now THERE is irony of the most delicious kind. (Just in case anyone is missing the tongue in cheek aspect here, most of the celebrations in other countries are at US military bases, or in places where there are a lot of US tourists) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/75 "2012-12-13T21:07:52Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > My vote (and I have no doubt this has been mentioned above) is that our concept of “liberty” and “freedom” has slowly mutated into a total lack of standards. > > “What? You want my child to study fancy math? AND you’re teaching her that we used to be monkeys!! She shouldn’t have to do that, she’ll fall behind on her video game schedule! Here, sweetie, have some more Twinkies…” I think that’s what I find disconcerting. That sense of entitlement combined with a profound anti-intellectual attitude. Americans are fond of thinking “we’re the best!”. But being “the best” means doing things better and smarter than everyone else. We aren’t going to stay “the best” if other countries place a higher value on education and hard work. Even if they do talk like a fag, and their shit’s all retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/76 "2012-12-13T21:09:24Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Stuff like this comes up in Canada all the time. “Americans are so dumb they don’t even know who the Prime Minister of Canada is!” Herp, herp, herp. Good old Canada. Looking through a pick-list in a program I use we discovered just today that there was a listing for ‘Numavut Providence’. I mean I can understand somebody not knowing about Nunavut (who does??). But Providence? Really? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/77 "2012-12-13T21:12:39Z")
NM…he edited his post. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/78 "2012-12-13T21:25:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think that’s what I find disconcerting. That sense of entitlement combined with a profound anti-intellectual attitude. Americans are fond of thinking “we’re the best!”. But being “the best” means doing things better and smarter than everyone else. We aren’t going to stay “the best” if other countries place a higher value on education and hard work. Even if they do talk like a fag, and their shit’s all retarded. How do you explain the fact, cited several times in this thread (I think post 9 was one of the best ones, if you missed it), that the US is actually in the middle of the pack wrt education? And that leaves aside the point also brought up several times in this thread that comparing the US to, say, France or the UK is an apples to alligators comparison. You seem to want to cling to the premise in your OP, even though it’s been addressed already that much of what was in your OP was incorrect. Yeah, there are Americans who are and have an anti-intellectual attitude. Guess what? There are folks in France, Germany and Japan who do as well! Yeah, there are a lot of Americans who think WE’RE NUMBER ONE!!1!1!!!1! Guess what? There are folks in those countries who think the same thing. We are a huge country, so for every anti-intellectual you are going to have several who aren’t. Same goes for religious fanatic types. Those are all small sub-groups in this country. For the sake of the gods, even if you think Americans are dumb as stumps what does that say about all the countries who contributed people to make this country what it is? We are a freaking immigrant country. You figure we got all the dumb ones?? What I see mostly in these kinds of threads are either stereotypes of Americans and America, or ‘the kids these days are just so stupid’ type stuff that has literally been going on, well, forever…every freaking generation thinks that the kids today aren’t as smart, don’t have as good an education, or spend their time playing computer games (or in the past reading, or playing board games, or throwing rocks at each other…and in MY day we didn’t even HAVE freaking rocks to throw, we had to throw poo at each other like our daddies did before us while walking up hill to the cave both ways). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/79 "2012-12-13T21:48:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Are you of the impression popular TV is any different anywhere else? Yeah, let us look at the top 10 ranked UK TV shows: > **[Top-rating TV shows of 2011](https://www.theguardian.com/media/table/2011/dec/20/top-rating-tv-shows-2011)** > > TV programmes with the biggest audiences by category Five of the top 6 are “\*reality shows about nouveau-riche morons, drunken idiots and competitions between attractive egomaniacs scrambling for cash.” \*( I am not including the Royal Wedding in there, so excluding that it is 5 of 5, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756/80 "2012-12-13T22:34:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > would it “improve” the average American to know what system of government they use in Tajikstan or who their biggest pop star is? Given our cultural dominance, there’s a better-than-even chance that the biggest pop star in Tajikstan is freakin’ Tom Cruise anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-americans-whats-the-technical-term-dumb-as-shit/643756.md?page=5)