# Why are ants so strong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2002, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-ants-so-strong/143492 "2002-12-18T05:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-ants-so-strong/143492/21 "2002-12-18T15:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary T \* > \*\ ***Urban Ranger** : It has a lot to do with it. As for apes, read Cecil’s column and you’ll note that he mentions leverage and muscle attachment, which is the key point with an exoskeleton. My point was exoskeketon does not appear to be superior to endoskeleton because apes are so much stronger than humans. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-ants-so-strong/143492/22 "2002-12-18T16:01:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary T \* > **Mangetout: Yes, surface to volume ratio is a factor, but in insects, long before gross size and weight present limits, their respiratory system is the key limitation factor on their size.** True enough, and I know this sounds like weaseling, but if respiratory systems weren’t the issue, structural strength _would_ be, if insects were merely scaled up > [@](#): > > \*\ ***bbeaty’s** response was not totally off the mark, the effects of scale are significant. But in the common concept of ants being so strong for their size, the exoskeleton is at least as significant. \*\ ***bbeaty** is actually spot on; doubling the scale in a limb means that the weight (which is related to the three-dimensional size) increases out of proportion with the muscle strength (which is related to the two-dimensional cross-sectional area of the muscle). I believe this is a more significant factor than the mechanical advantages (if any) of exoskeletons. > [@](#): > > \*\ ***Mangetout** : No, human-engineered exoskeletons often use hydraulic power, but the natural ones have muscles. That’s the meat in crab legs. \*\*I was mistaken; arachnids (not sure about other arthropods) use hydraulic pressure only to extend their limbs, retraction is handled by muscles. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-ants-so-strong/143492/23 "2002-12-18T16:30:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Urban Ranger \* > Yeah, but an ant weighs much more than 3mg. A cc of water weighs roughly 1g. Say an ant is 6mmx3mmx3mm, which is 0.6x0.3x0.3 or 0.054cc. Water of that volume will weight 54mg. That’s like 12 times denser. What the heck is this ant made of, cotton candy? Well, ya got all those legs ‘n’ stuff in there. For comparison (because this is the only hard data I can find) from [this page on giant ants](http://www.biologie.uni-ulm.de/bio3/mpfeiffer/abstracts.htm): > [@](#): > > The mean body length of the minor workers was 20.9 mm, of the major workers 28.1 mm. The mean weight of the workers was 135 mg, respectively 372 mg. For this ant, the “minor workers” are 3.48 times as long as the 6mm leafcutters, and the “major workers” are 4.68 times as long. Assuming the 3mg number is right, and assuming similar proportions (there’s not _that_ much scale difference), you might expect the minor workers to weigh 3mg_3.48[sup]3[/sup] = 126mg, and the major workers to weight 3mg_4.68[sup]3[/sup] = 308mg. Not that far off from the real numbers at all. Your assumption, however, would lead to volumes of 20.9mm_10.45mm_10.45mm = 2.28cc and 28.1mm_14.05mm_14.05mm = 5.55cc; with corresponding water weights of 2280mg and 5550mg. Nowhere near the real numbers. I suspect your error is in assuming a width that’s half the length; more likely it’s, um… (calculating)… 1/8 the length. If anyone has hard hard data on weights and sizes of leafcutter ants, though, I’d like to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-ants-so-strong/143492/24 "2002-12-18T18:45:07Z")
The Teeming Millions, on the [Fabulous Uber-Roach](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=60812). ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-ants-so-strong/143492/25 "2002-12-19T08:54:16Z")
As for the human scaling bit, I took a look at some of the powerlifting records for various weight divisions, expecting to find the biggest men lifting the smallest percentage of their own body weights and the smallest men the most. I only looked at one set of records for each weight class, but the largest athletes did have the lowest relative strength when dividing what they lifted by their own body weights… but those with the highest relative stregnth seemed to be in the 150-230 pound range… the “normal” size range of most men I’d describe it as. To my dissapointment the little guys appeared relatively weaker than mid-sized guys, though stronger than the big boys. If someone has 15 minutes they could use an XL spreadsheet to look at more numbers than I did… though I suspect as was already mentioned the numbers wouldn’t be vastly different WRT size as humans don’t have a very large size range for scaling to work on… though you would see some notable differences in relative strength with extreme examples like say at 5’3" 130lb male gymnsat vs Andre the Giant; which one of those two would you imagine could hold an iron cross longer (if at all)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-ants-so-strong/143492.md?page=1)