# Why are arachnids more venomous than insects?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [February 23, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716 "2012-02-23T07:06:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/1 "2012-02-23T07:06:52Z")
Many species of spiders and scorpions have very dangerous venom but very few insects have venom, and even the worst, a hornet’s sting isn’t that bad.
Why?
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### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2012, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/2 "2012-02-23T07:37:50Z")
Simple answer: mouthparts.
The ancestral arachnids had fangs and a tiny slit-like mouth. They could only eat food that had already been liquefied. They were definitely predatory, and probably quasi-parasitic, drinking the body fluids of much larger animals, IOW the ancestral arachnids were similar to modern mites. From that point, it’s a very short hop to coating the area around the wound with anti-coagulant and anaeasthetic liquids to assist feeding and then forcing digestive enzymes down the hollow fangs to liquefy solid tissues, thus increasing the amount of food obtained by a single meal. Once you start injecting enzymes into your host, you effectively have a venom delivery system. Anything else is just a refinement.
Some of those mite-like arachnids then started preying upon animals closer to their own size, and eventually evolved into spiders, scorpions and other arachnid predators. But most retained the need to liquefy their prey before eating it until quite recently. Hence they retained both the fangs to suck the liquid out, and the injection system to get the enzymes in.
In contrast The ancestral insects had chewing mouthparts, capable of tearing food apart, set just inside a large large cavity. They presumably fed on prey in the in the same size range as themselves or else were scavengers. They had little need for venom, since they could kill their prey with their jaws and they had no need for external enzymes because they could dismember food into bite-size chunks.
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### Author:  [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/3 "2012-02-23T07:54:22Z")
Thanks
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/4 "2012-02-24T14:45:21Z")
Correct answer: evil.
While there is no factual inaccuracy in **Blake** ’s post, he has slyly omittied the widely-accepted hypothesis that spider venom is, essentially, concentrated evil. It is a physical manifestation of the malevolent will of the creature. If spiders did not produce venom, the unbridled intensity of their hatred of all life forms would quickly overpower the very chemistry that binds their bodies together, resulting in a tiny ball of fire and a foul, abysmal stench where the spider used to be.
I have plenty to say about arachno-apologists like **Blake** , who would gladly sell out their fellow chordates to an evil that both dwarfs and pre-dates Satan’s Heavenly rebellion, but such thoughts are more appropriately placed in a different forum.
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### Author:  [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/5 "2012-02-24T15:31:53Z")
Nonsense **Inigo** , the spiders just want to be your [friends](http://www.quickmeme.com/Misunderstood-Spider/).
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/6 "2012-02-24T18:32:48Z")
Spiders have too many eyes as it is. A whole page full of spider faces hurts my brain.
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/7 "2012-02-24T18:38:55Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#):
>
> Correct answer: evil.
>
> While there is no factual inaccuracy in **Blake** ’s post, he has slyly omittied the widely-accepted hypothesis that spider venom is, essentially, concentrated evil. It is a physical manifestation of the malevolent will of the creature. If spiders did not produce venom, the unbridled intensity of their hatred of all life forms would quickly overpower the very chemistry that binds their bodies together, resulting in a tiny ball of fire and a foul, abysmal stench where the spider used to be.
>
> I have plenty to say about arachno-apologists like **Blake** , who would gladly sell out their fellow chordates to an evil that both dwarfs and pre-dates Satan’s Heavenly rebellion, but such thoughts are more appropriately placed in a different forum.
There’s a reason it’s called “the worldwide Web”. People (?) like **Blake** sit in its center, spinning their silken lies for the naive and unsuspecting. Meanwhile, his arachno-pals plot their takeover.
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/8 "2012-02-24T18:44:07Z")
Arachno-syndicalist communists…
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/9 "2012-02-24T18:46:38Z")
Hey, if you all don’t like spiders, you can just bring them on over to my place, and we’ll see who gets more itchy bites.
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### Author:  [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/10 "2012-02-24T20:26:54Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#):
>
> …and even the worst, a hornet’s sting isn’t that bad.
I think you’re missing [the asian giant hornet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet) which kills several people a year.
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/11 "2012-02-24T21:10:11Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#):
>
> I think you’re missing [the asian giant hornet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet) which kills several people a year.
Yeah, but that’s a real (Old World) hornet. Ours are just yellow jackets on steroids.
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/12 "2012-02-24T21:22:14Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#):
>
> I think you’re missing [the asian giant hornet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet) which kills several people a year.
Oh, great. Killer bees from the south, bark beetles from Asia. I can hardly wait until these guys arrive on our shores.
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/13 "2012-02-24T21:37:50Z")
> [@Chefguy](#):
>
> I can hardly wait until these guys arrive on our shores.
Nature being the bitch she is…some spiders will evolve that will be able to take 'em on. Probably a tarantula-sized brown recluse…with wings.
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### Author:  [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/14 "2012-02-24T23:48:56Z")
Spiders pretty universally liquify the insides of their prey and suck them dry, leaving only an empty exoskeleton husk, right? They don’t have mouthparts suited to crunching (like preying mantises, for example). So it makes sense that their bite would be more harmful to human flesh. It’s not just poison (neurotoxins etc), it’s corrosives.
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/15 "2012-02-24T23:59:56Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#):
>
> Spiders pretty universally liquify the insides of their prey and suck them dry, leaving only an empty exoskeleton husk, right?
Pretty sure I was married to her.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/16 "2012-02-27T00:02:33Z")
If I was to compare the average venomous spider to the average venomous humanitarian I’m not sure than spiders as a class would be all that much worse. At the far ends of the pain and incapacity spectrum I’m pretty sure a [bullet ant](http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/painful-animal-bite-on-earth/2529)or a velvet ant or a tarantula hawk wasp has a more painful sting/bite than 99.99% percent of all spiders. The only way spiders win out is that a few have a venom that keeps narcotizing the bitten area for a long time.
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### Author:  [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/17 "2012-02-27T01:35:02Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#):
>
> I think you’re missing [the asian giant hornet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet) which kills several people a year.
Thanks for giving me nightmares
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### Author:  [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-arachnids-more-venomous-than-insects/613716/18 "2012-02-27T02:07:14Z")
per Astroboy and astro, yeah the bullet ant and japanese hornet are fearsome creatures. One sting from either one won’t kill you, but you won’t be very happy either.
Stings from a swarm of either creature can kill you quite dead.
Spiders can’t be all that evil, even the deadly Aussie varieties. The ain’t going anywhere. You pretty much have to come to them. I mean, a swarm of Japanese hornets can _chase_ you. :eek:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbTdfCxyv1U)