# Why are Area 51 trespassers arrested by the sheriff, not the Feds? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 10, 2015, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147 "2015-06-10T05:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/1 "2015-06-10T05:53:36Z")
If one of the many tourists who visit the famous Area 51 boundary sign ever crosses that line, they’re quickly apprehended by the “Camo Dudes” (who are not military, but work for private security firms) and handed over to the county sheriff to be charged with trespassing. But why are they not charged with a federal crime? There’s a federal law listed right on the sign that forbids entry, and the Feds are usually not shy about asserting jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/2 "2015-06-10T11:16:22Z")
I’m guessing that it’s just a matter of convenience. The only law authority nearby is the sherriff. I’m also guessing that the private security firm at Area 51 has the same legal status as a private security firm at your local shopping mall. The rent-a-cop in the mall cannot put cuffs on you; he has to call the local police or sheriff to do that. Fun facts about law enforcement on federal property: National Parks are federal land, and the local or state police do not patrol there. In Yellowstone, Yosemite ,etc…some of those friendly park rangers with big hats not just nature guides…they are also fully authorized policemen, with guns and handcuffs on their belt. There is also a jail located in the park. These parks are are managed like cities–they receive 3 or 4 million visitors a year, so their “population” is larger than many urban areas, and they have budgets and infrastructure for law enforcement. Area 51 is more isolated, and presumably the local sheriff is the guy to turn to when there’s an occasional problem. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/3 "2015-06-10T13:25:41Z")
> [@ricksummon](#): > > …the Feds are usually not shy about asserting jurisdiction. You’d be surprised. In any event, federal criminal agencies are generally only going to throw their weight around over serious crimes, or those which cannot appropriately be investigated or prosecuted by local authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Crazier\_Catlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Crazier\_Catlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazier_Catlady)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/4 "2015-06-10T13:27:41Z")
That gives me an idea: if there are so many tourists there, why not relocate the secret stuff at area 51 to somewhere else and charge the public good money to actually visit the now defunct area 51? Should pay for itself. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/5 "2015-06-10T13:43:01Z")
Along the same lines, we could put the Hope diamond in a secret vault. Then we can let people come and see where it used to be and not worry about these annoying security procedures! Wait, I think there’s a problem with our plans. ---
**Author:** ![Crazier\_Catlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Crazier\_Catlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazier_Catlady)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/6 "2015-06-10T13:49:23Z")
Yes, but nobody is interested in the real secret stuff such as new spy planes. What they want to see is the reaaalllyyyy secret stuff such as the operating theater where the aliens were autopsied. Hire a good props company to supply it and you wouldn’t believe how many people would delightedly walk all around it. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/7 "2015-06-10T13:55:51Z")
You gotta make it more spooky scary. Put the props in place. Dig some tunnels. Then hire “coyotes” to take people in through the secret tunnels they “discovered.” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/8 "2015-06-10T13:56:33Z")
I think an “Area 51” tour would be a big moneymaker. Also, include a Roswell, NM tour-people could walk around empty desert, and see where some ranchers found the remains of a crashed balloon. Throw in a few dummies in parachute harnesses as well. There is an actual Roswell Museum at Kirkland AFB in Albuquerque-it has one of the dummies, and an explanation of the whole myth. In time, the whole UFO mythos will become popular folklore-and then it will be like visiting Heidi’s house-you know that the whole story is fake, but go along with it for fun. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/9 "2015-06-10T14:01:25Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > //Snip > Fun facts about law enforcement on federal property: > National Parks are federal land, and the local or state police do not patrol there. > //snip I know that back in mid-80’s, Oklahoma Highway Patrol had a contract for [Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge](http://www.fws.gov/refuge/wichita_mountains/) (presumedly with US Fish and Wildlife Service which runs the refuge) to keep speeding cars under control, full authority of road laws, etc. I know this as one stormy day, my Mom, step-dad and myself had gone to top of Mt Scott (great view of flatlands/Ft Sill and any developing tornados). An Ok Highway Patrol car pulled up and trooper came over to chat politely with us, not to harrass, just to be clear. During the thirty or so minutes he was there, he told my cop-parents how it came to be that he had authority there (from said contracting contract ‘coverage/enforcement’) - and I had seen a number of vehicles ‘pulled over’ by OHP on my many visits there while in Army at Ft Sill both before and after talking with that fellow (who had gone up there to watch for torndoes forming, and lots of hidey holes in the huge boulders of granite that form Mt Scott). I’d seen OHP patrol cars doing ‘radar traps’ several times, so its not like they only go there to drive around, it would seem. Speed limits tend to be around 40mph but a vehicle could eaasily do much faster safely in many areas of open prarie areas - except for the bison, longhorn, various wildlife that stand in middle of blind curves and I’ve even had a herd of a dozen or so bison run right out in front of me from 40-50’ from roadside for no apparent reason. If I’d been going faster than 40mph, I am positive it would have been disastrous, fwiw. The herd stopped their run just barely on other side of road and they were all just staring at car from maybe 20 yards away - weird experience, as if they wanted to ‘attack’ the car while it was moving. I crept car backwards really slow until I was far enough to turn around and go to another area, LOL. It may not be a “National Park” by narrow definition as there’s no-gate/no-pay access from several differrent roads, etc, but it is Federal land with plenty of restrictions on where you can go or do, etc. I feel its a safe assertion that OHP still covers the roads, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/10 "2015-06-10T14:22:32Z")
For an interesting first-person account of tourist “field trips” to the Area 51 overlook ( “Freedom Ridge”) and various goings-on in Rachel in the mid-90s, check out the archives of [The Groom Lake Desert Rat](http://www.ufomind.com/area51/desertrat/). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/11 "2015-06-10T15:07:07Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Fun facts about law enforcement on federal property: > National Parks are federal land, and the local or state police do not patrol there. See [here](https://www.law.msu.edu/foundations/6-section-1-kalt-the-perfect-crime.pdf) (pdf) for a paper from a law professor who constructs the alleged possibility to commit the perfect crime on this basis. The argument runs as follows: [ul] [li]Yellowstone Park is subject to exclusive federal jurisdiction; state jurisdiction is excluded.[/li][li]Most of Yellowstone Park is in Wyoming, but small parts of it are in Idaho and Montana.[/li][li]When the U.S. District Courts were set up, all of the park was included in the Wyoming district, even those parts that belong to the other states.[/li][li]If you commit a crime that requires a jury trial, the Sixth Amendment requires the jury to be drawn from the state and judicial district where the crime was committed.[/li][li]So if you commit a crime in the Idaho part of Yellowstone park, the jury would have to be drawn from the state of Idaho and the judicial district of Wyoming. The only possibility to do so would be to draw jurors that live in the Idaho part of Yellowstone Park.[/li][li]This area has a population of zero. There is no way to fill a jury in line with all constitutional requirements, so you cannot be tried.[/li][/ul] So much for Brian Kalt’s argument. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/12 "2015-06-10T15:10:46Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > See [here](https://www.law.msu.edu/foundations/6-section-1-kalt-the-perfect-crime.pdf) (pdf) for a paper from a law professor who constructs the alleged possibility to commit the perfect crime on this basis. The argument runs as follows: > > [ul] > [li]Yellowstone Park is subject to exclusive federal jurisdiction; state jurisdiction is excluded.[/li][li]Most of Yellowstone Park is in Wyoming, but small parts of it are in Idaho and Montana.[/li][li]When the U.S. District Courts were set up, all of the park was included in the Wyoming district, even those parts that belong to the other states.[/li][li]If you commit a crime that requires a jury trial, the Sixth Amendment requires the jury to be drawn from the state and judicial district where the crime was committed.[/li][li]So if you commit a crime in the Idaho part of Yellowstone park, the jury would have to be drawn from the state of Idaho and the judicial district of Wyoming. The only possibility to do so would be to draw jurors that live in the Idaho part of Yellowstone Park.[/li][li]This area has a population of zero. There is no way to fill a jury in line with all constitutional requirements, so you cannot be tried.[/li][/ul] > … This deserves its own thread. Who volunteers? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/13 "2015-06-10T15:29:55Z")
We’ve already done it, though I can’t find the thread. Consensus is that it wouldn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/14 "2015-06-10T21:18:31Z")
ISTR that the “magic area” is really remote and difficult to get to. Bringing the victim there would be nearly impossible unless you both happened to be experienced backcountry campers, or you kidnapped the target and dropped them in by helicopter or something equally cockamamie. ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/15 "2015-06-10T21:28:44Z")
> [@Crazier\_Catlady](#): > > That gives me an idea: if there are so many tourists there, why not relocate the secret stuff at area 51 to somewhere else and charge the public good money to actually visit the now defunct area 51? Should pay for itself. Considering one of the base’s big problems was illegal disposal of toxic waste, I don’t see them giving tours anytime in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/16 "2015-06-10T21:46:04Z")
I still like the solution of convening a jury of twelve grizzly bears. “We find the defendant guilty by virtue of being really tasty”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/17 "2015-06-10T22:12:51Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > [ul] > [li]Yellowstone Park is subject to exclusive federal jurisdiction; state jurisdiction is excluded.[/li][li]Most of Yellowstone Park is in Wyoming, but small parts of it are in Idaho and Montana.[/li][li]When the U.S. District Courts were set up, all of the park was included in the Wyoming district, even those parts that belong to the other states.[/li][li]If you commit a crime that requires a jury trial, the Sixth Amendment requires the jury to be drawn from the state and judicial district where the crime was committed.[/li][li]So if you commit a crime in the Idaho part of Yellowstone park, the jury would have to be drawn from the state of Idaho and the judicial district of Wyoming. The only possibility to do so would be to draw jurors that live in the Idaho part of Yellowstone Park.[/li][li]This area has a population of zero. There is no way to fill a jury in line with all constitutional requirements, so you cannot be tried.[/li][/ul] This may explain why a certain picnic basket thief has gone free for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/18 "2015-06-10T22:24:07Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > ISTR that the “magic area” is really remote and difficult to get to. Bringing the victim there would be nearly impossible unless you both happened to be experienced backcountry campers, or you kidnapped the target and dropped them in by helicopter or something equally cockamamie. Right, but if you kidnapped them in New York and took them to Idaho to kill them, you could be charged with kidnapping in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/19 "2015-06-10T23:01:57Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > These parks are are managed like cities–they receive 3 or 4 million visitors a year, so their “population” is larger than many urban areas, This comparison is a apples and oranges: the populations of urban areas rarely (\*) take into account every person who stepped foot there during the year. I’m not sure what the population at any given time of even our most popular park at peak is, but I doubt it would come close to the population of any urban area. (\*) ie, never ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147/20 "2015-06-11T00:15:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This may explain why a certain picnic basket thief has gone free for so long. And if he were caught and tried by a jury of his peers (the aforesaid 12 grizzly bears), he’d be smarter than the average of them all, ergo he’d easily talk his way out of it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-area-51-trespassers-arrested-by-the-sheriff-not-the-feds/722147.md?page=2)